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Post by sleepyqueenie on Sept 13, 2018 17:51:40 GMT
Her people must have lost huge amounts of power very quickly for it to be basically her and Frik as the only ones left who can do something about it. I would have loved to see her fae court in its glory days.
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Post by Arwen17 on Sept 14, 2018 13:51:42 GMT
Her people must have lost huge amounts of power very quickly for it to be basically her and Frik as the only ones left who can do something about it. I would have loved to see her fae court in its glory days. The book didn't make it sound "quick", aka it took several centuries, because the book says it started with the Roman invasion of Britain (aka Mab burning the roman soldiers in the wickerman). It got way worse when Rome "Christianized" itself, especially during the time of King Constant I guess. Then Vortigern comes in, and even though he's Pagan, starts slaughtering everyone anyway. Other Pagan groups aren't too kind to other Pagan groups, so you can't just blame Christian Rome for the issues. In the case of Rome, they always believed they were "civilizing" the savage world, even when Rome was Pagan, they saw themselves as the conquerors and "civilizers" of "lesser cultures". It's not just Frik and Mab, there's LotL and the Mountain King too. There's also some of the gnomes in the woods and caves we saw during the movie. They aren't super-super tiny, even if they aren't human-sized. Plus, the books had Idath and Herne etc. Herne was living as a human 99% of the time. So some of them may have chosen to become mortal instead of disappearing completely. The book gives me the impression that they're around, but they're very, very rare nowadays. Only the most powerful have lasted to the very end: Idath, Mab, Herne, LotL, Mountain King, etc. I don't know if that means Frik is powerful or if he has "special status" since he's Mab's right hand man. He might be powerful compared to the others who faded, or its simply his special proximity to Mab that sustains him, or maybe a little bit of both reasons. We just don't know. I don't like Frik enough as a character, but someone should fanfic a response to this question lol.
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Sept 14, 2018 15:57:34 GMT
See, I never look at the books closely enough. Yeah her Lotl-ness and MountainKing are superhelpful. :-P I love how despite magic dying everyone is like "yes, of course, dragons." Even the christians would be like: dragon♡. I wish we knew of Mab's allies and struggles before the film. Yes, there should definitely be a Frik fic about this. :-)
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Oct 5, 2018 19:33:18 GMT
Not meaning to change the subject, simply inserting between your discussion another example of differences. Before this scene there were a few changes in the dialogue where Vortigern questions Ardent's loyalty, but it's not really worth noting.
Unpublished Final Shooting Script Version: EXT. AMBROSIA'S COTTAGE. DAY.MERLIN is waiting when a TROOP of VORTIGERN'S SOLDIERS ride up with the OLD SOOTHSAYER. OLD SOOTHSAYER: Seize that man!
MERLIN gestures and the horses suddenly rear up throwing them all to the ground. The TROOPS stagger up and are about to pounce on MERLIN when he gestures and they freeze in particularly ungainly positions. MERLIN: It's not polite to come barging in like that ... I'm not amused. The OLD SOOTHSAYER quickly decides to take a different approach.
OLD SOOTHSAYER: I'm sorry ... didn't mean to give offense. The SOLDIERS return to normal. OLD SOOTHSAYER: I'm the King's Soothsayer. MERLIN: (ironically) An important position. OLD SOOTHSAYER: (sighing) Oh yes ... and a fragile one ... I'm the third Royal Soothsayer this year. MERLIN: King Vortigern must go through them at an alarming speed? OLD SOOTHSAYER: (shuddering) He does ... You're Merlin, a man with no mortal father? MERLIN: Yes. OLD SOOTHSAYER: The King wants to see you ... er, if it's convenient. EXT. FOREST. DAY.
MERLIN rides through the forest, escorted by VORTIGERN'S SOLDIERS and the OLD SOOTHSAYER.
MERLIN: You found me very quickly. OLD SOOTHSAYER: I am a professional Soothsayer. MERLIN: You've been talking to Queen Mab ... She wants to teach me a lesson. OLD SOOTHSAYER: Ah, yes, it's going to be a bloody one, I'm afraid.
Published Final Shooting Script Version:
EXT. AMBROSIA'S COTTAGE. DAY. ** MERLIN is waiting when a TROOP of VORTIGERN'S SOLDIERS ride up with the OLD SOOTHSAYER. OLD SOOTHSAYER:* (blustering) Seize that man! MERLIN:* (mildly) Welcome to my home, sir. How can I help you? The OLD SOOTHSAYER immediately changes his approach as he dismounts. OLD SOOTHSAYER:* Well, er, the king wants to see you. MERLIN:* You only have to ask. OLD SOOTHSAYER:* You'll come voluntarily? Ah, that's good, most people are reluctant to meet King Vortigern. In fact they're usually dragged in screaming - not that I blame them ... I'm the King's Soothsayer. MERLIN:* (ironically) An important position? OLD SOOTHSAYER:* (sighing) And a fragile one ... I'm the third Royal Soothsayer this year. MERLIN:* King Vortigern gets through them at an alarming speed? OLD SOOTHSAYER:* (shuddering) He gets through everything at an alarming speed ... you're Merlin, a man with no mortal father? MERLIN:* Yes. OLD SOOTHSAYER: I'm afraid the king wants you urgently. EXT. FOREST. DAY. ** MERLIN and the OLD SOOTHSAYER ride slowly through the forest. MERLIN:* How did you find me?
OLD SOOTHSAYER:* I am a professional Soothsayer.
MERLIN:* Oh, yes, of course ... its obvious ....
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Oct 5, 2018 22:01:41 GMT
Unpublished Final Shooting Script Version: INT. DUNGEONS. PENDRAGON CASTLE. DUSK.
GUARDS carry MERLIN down the dungeon steps. A JAILER opens a cell door and MERLIN is pushed inside. As the JAILER looks the cell door, MAB suddenly appears behind him. She looks at the lock - it is encircled with a blue light and seems to seal itself.
ACT THREE BREAK
MERLIN regains consciousness, gets off his pallet and the first thing he does is remove the ropes binding his hands. Crossing to the cell door he makes a distinctive gesture. He expects the cell door to open but it doesn't. As he gestures again without any result, FRIK appears in his butler-like incarnation. FRIK: I'm sorry, sir, but your magic won't work. Queen Mab has put a spell on it.
MERLIN: Hello, Frik, how're you?
FRIK: Overworked and underpaid. I'm afraid you can only get out of this cell if King Vortigern lets you out. How did they ever make a vulgarian like that king? You mortals have no sense of the fitness of things ... I'm here with a message from Mab.
MERLIN: Naturally.
FRIK: She wants you to show the world how powerful you are.
MERLIN: And what else?
FRIK: She's going to punish you.
MERLIN: She hates me.
FRIK: No, but she's very disappointed you've been so reluctant to use your magic powers.
MERLIN: They bring back bad memories, Frik.
FRIK: When all is said and done, Master Merlin, you're still only human.
MERLIN: I'll never use them to help her.
FRIK: She's convinced you will, once you get into the habit ... She's a terrible enemy, Master Merlin, and a very poor employer. But that's enough of my problems.
He vanishes, leaving MERLIN shivering in the dark.
Published Final Shooting Script Version: INT. MERLIN'S CELL. PENDRAGON CASTLE. DAY.MERLIN regains consciousness, gets up and looks around. As he does so Frik appears in his butler-like incarnation. MERLIN: Hello, Frik. How're you?
FRIK: Overworked and underpaid ... you're in serious trouble this time, Master Merlin. How did they ever make a vulgarian like Vortigern, king? You mortals have no sense of the fitness of things ... I'm here with a message from Mab.
MERLIN: Naturally.
FRIK: She's going to punish you.
MERLIN: She hates me.
FRIK: No, but she's very disappointed you've been so reluctant to use your magic power.
MERLIN: I swore an oath on Ambrosia's grave.
FRIK: But why won't you use them Master Merlin?
MERLIN: (savagely) Because Mab wants me to!
FRIK: You will, in the end, you're half human ... she's a terrible enemy Master Merlin, and a very poor employer. But enough of my problems ...
He vanishes leaving Merlin in the dark.
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Oct 5, 2018 22:21:09 GMT
These are subtle changes. I don't know if anyone else really cares about such slight differences, but I love to find them. I hope someone else out there will find happiness in reading them.
Unpublished Version of the Final Shooting Script CLOSE SHOT: MERLIN and NIMUE. MERLIN can see NIMUE's face on the other side of the grill. It is very like the scene when they met in the abbey at Avalon. MERLIN instantly recognizes her. MERLIN: Nimue!
NIMUE: Merlin, it is you! You said we'd meet again ... I thought I recognized you last night when they brought you in ... but then they said you were a wizard.
MERLIN:
Yes, I am.
NIMUE: Not much of one. You can't even escape.
MERLIN: A greater wizard than me has cast a spell on the prison. I can't break it.
Nimue: Who did that?
MERLIN: Queen Mab.
NIMUE crosses herself quickly.
Published Final Shooting Script Version: CLOSE SHOT: MERLIN and NIMUE. MERLIN can see NIMUE's face on the other side of the grill. It is very like the scene when they met in the abbey at Avalon. MERLIN instantly recognizes her. MERLIN: Nimue!
NIMUE: Merlin, it is you! You said we'd meet again ... I thought I recognized you last night when they brought you in ... but then they said you were a wizard.
MERLIN: Yes, I am.
NIMUE: Not much of one. You can't even escape.
MERLIN smiles wryly. MERLIN: I can but I won't.
NIMUE: (astonished) Why not?
MERLIN: That's between me and Queen Mab.
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Oct 10, 2018 10:41:47 GMT
I love these! Thank you. :-) The differences are fascinating. Discussing Mab with the soothsayer would have been awesome. It is probably best they left out Mab's spell on the prison. Merlin wasn't using magic anyway. I must confess I find his imprisonment confusing. First Mab sees to it that he gets captured, then he refuses to play along and do something, so she goes to Vortigern to negotiate getting him back while she could just appear in the cell as Frik did and take him. Luckily she came up with the harm Nimue plot to draw his powers out, that at least was something, practically speaking.
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Post by himiko on Oct 20, 2018 13:15:50 GMT
Thanks for posting the new script excerpts! Interesting, so in this version of the script they didn't have the "Merlin refuses to use his powers" subplot in the early part of the film? He just uses them sparingly?
I can see why they changed it - as above, it doesn't really make much sense for Mab to block Merlin's powers to keep him in prison, then make a deal with Vortigern to get him out of prison rather than taking him back herself. And the plot with burning Nimue wouldn't make much sense since the purpose in the final film is to force Merlin to use his powers - without that motivation, she's just pissing Merlin off for no reason.
I have to say, even in the final film it's odd that she asks for Merlin in exchange for her deal with Vortigern - I get that her overall aim is to put Merlin into a situation that requires him to use his magic, so the purpose of the visit is to trick Vortigern into following her advice, rather than necessarily what she can get from him in return. At this point she's still planning to eventually supplant him with Merlin. And I don't imagine she puts much trust in Vortigern's promises after their initial meeting. But still, you would have thought she might as well make a deal that benefits her more on the off chance that Vortigern actually follows through this time. She could take Merlin back herself or have Frik do it. It's not like he's going to come quietly to Mab and Frik if it's Vortigern who hands him over to them.
I feel like I should read that passage from the books again and see what it has to say, I don't remember Book 2 that well (Books 1 and 3 have a lot more "offscreen" stuff in them, which bizarrely seems to make them easier to recall).
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Post by Arwen17 on Oct 24, 2018 9:04:33 GMT
I feel like I should read that passage from the books again and see what it has to say, I don't remember Book 2 that well (Books 1 and 3 have a lot more "offscreen" stuff in them, which bizarrely seems to make them easier to recall). Or if you're like me, I've simply reread Book 1 the most often, followed by book 3, while barely ever touching book 2 because there's more original content in books 1 and 3 while book 2 is boring because its straight from the movie word-for-word. I make awesome run-on sentences. lol Merlin called Mab a wizard instead of a witch or sorceress. What is that about? The next book will be released as "The story of Mab the wizard" yes yes.
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Dec 3, 2018 6:53:56 GMT
Thank you for showing interest in this thread. I'm sorry I can't provide photos of all the script pages. I'm hesitant to even open the binder because it is fragile from use. The front page has already fallen out. sleepyqueenie, Himiko, I couldn't agree with you more. If anyone has revisited Book 2, I would love to hear their thoughts regarding the last scene. Here is another scene.
Unpublished Final Shooting Script version: INT. NIMUE'S ROOM, PENDRAGON CASTLE. DAYMERLIN and NIMUE are sharing a meal of bread and fruits. NIMUE: You're a wizard?
MERLIN: I'm only a hand wizard.
NIMUE: There's magic in hands?
MERLIN: They can say so much more than words ... A clenched fist, snapping your fingers, thumb up, thumb down, hands welcoming, begging or praying ... They're a universal language.
He gestures and an ORANGE peels itself. Nimue laughs in delight. NIMUE: No, no, let's be serious ... Tell me what you want.
MERLIN: I want you.
NIMUE: That's not what I meant.
MERLIN: I'd like to see England at peace ... an England of kindness and chivalry ... and England where men and women could live serene, without hatred or envy, where misery was unknown and happiness was for all ... and I want you.
NIMUE: That's a vision we both share.
Published Final Shooting Script Version INT. NIMUE'S ROOM, PENDRAGON CASTLE. NIGHTMERLIN and NIMUE are sitting in NIMUE'S ROOM. The moon is shining through the window. NIMUE: Are you really a wizard?
MERLIN: They can say so much more than words ... a clenched fist, snapping fingers, thumb up, thumb down, hands welcoming, begging or praying ... they're a universal language ... hands can even pluck down the moon for you.
He stretches out and seems to pluck the moon out of the night sky and hold it in his hand. MERLIN: If only we could keep everything simple, like the roundness of the moon ... look at it's simplicity Nimue ... everything equal ... no part more important than the rest...
He runs the moon over his fingers like a coin. Closing his hand he offers the moon to NIMUE. Light glows from Merlin's fist as NIMUE accepts the gift. MERLIN: Ah, but the moon's not so easy to catch and hold. He opens his fist. His hand is empty. NIMUE laughs.
NIMUE: I thought you weren't going to do any magic. MERLIN: That wasn't magic, magic's real ... that was just a trick. NIMUE: How did you do it? MERLIN: It's a secret ... and if I told you it wouldn't be a secret anymore. NIMUE: Can you tell me something plain ... without tricks, Merlin? MERLIN: Yes ... just ask. NIMUE: What do you want? MERLIN: I want you. NIMUE: That's not what I meant ... what do you want from life? MERLIN: I want to heal the land ... and I want you.
The reason Merlin did not perform his moon coin trick in the UFSS is because Merlin had already performed the trick for Arthur. The following scene occurs directly after Arthur gives Merlin the news that Uther is dead. Other than the moon coin trick, the version found in the published shooting script is almost exactly the same as below, aside from a few added lines and the absence of the griffin attack.
Unpublished Final Shooting Script Version
11. SCENE OMITTED 12. SCENE OMITTED 13. EXT. ANOTHER PART OF FOREST. DAY
ARTHUR and MERLIN ride out of the wood onto a sunlit hillside. DISSOLVE TO:
14. EXT. RUINS BY RIVER. NIGHT MERLIN and ARTHUR are relaxing, laying on their backs looking up at the night sky. MERLIN: If only we could keep everything simple like the shape of the moon.
MERLIN stretches out and seems to hold the moon in his hand. MERLIN: Look at the simplicity of a circle, Arthur ... everything's equal, no part more important than the rest...
He runs the moon over his fingers like a coin. Closing his hand he offers the moon to ARTHUR. Light glows from his fist as ARTHUR accepts the gift. MERLIN: But the moon's not easy to catch and hold. He opens his fist. His hand is empty. ARTHUR looks up to see the moon is in its place.
MERLIN'S horse, RUPERT, neighs impatiently and MERLIN gets up to tend to him.
RUPERT: You're just putting it off Merlin ... you have to tell him. ARTHUR'S HORSE interjects. ARTHUR'S HORSE: Tell him everything. I would if I were you. RUPERT: Do you mind? This is a private conversation. No-one asked for your opinion! MERLIN: No, no, it's good advice from both of you. I just hope I know how to do it. He moves away to join ARTHUR. We watch him over the horse heads. ARTHUR'S HORSE: He's not too bad for a human. Most of them are cruel, loud and vulgar. RUPERT: And they stink to heaven. CLOSE SHOT: MERLIN and ARTHUR, MERLIN sits beside ARTHUR in front of the camp fire. ARTHUR: (impatiently) Are you going to tell me now?
MERLIN: Yes ... It's time.
As MERLIN settles down to talk, CAMERA BEGINS TO TRACK BACK and their VOICES FADE.
OLD MERLIN'S VOICE: And so I began to tell him the story of my life, and times ... bloody times ... terrible times...
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Dec 3, 2018 8:01:16 GMT
Unpublished Final Shooting Script version
79. INT. COURTYARD. PENDRAGON CASTLE. DAY The great castle gates swing open and MAB enters on horseback. She has on a glittering black dress and is carrying a magnificent BLACK FALCON on her gloved hand. She is followed by a TROOP of black-hooded PRIESTESSES, riding WHITE HORSES. VORTIGERN and his KNIGHTS stand on top of a flight of steps and watch. MAB dismounts and comes up to greet him. MAB: Hail, Vortigern, King of Britain. I am Mab, Queen of the Old Ways... VORTIGERN: Why've you come? MAB: To give you a gift. She indicated the LIVE BIRD on her hand. VORTIGERN: I have hunting birds.
MAB: Not like this.
As she passes the BIRD over to him it turns into a STATUE OF A BIRD, encrusted with jewels. EVERYONE is impressed.
VORTIGERN: It's beautiful ... what do you want in return?
MAB: To show you how to defeat Uther.
Published Final Shooting Script version
79. INT. COURTYARD. PENDRAGON CASTLE. DAY The great castle gates swing open and MAB enters on horseback. She has on a glittering black dress. She is followed by a TROOP of black-hooded PRIESTESSES, riding WHITE HORSES. VORTIGERN and his KNIGHTS stand on top of a flight of steps and watch. MAB dismounts and comes up to greet him. MAB: Hail, Vortigern, King of Britain. I am Mab, Queen of the Old Ways. VORTIGERN: Why've you come? MAB: To show you how to defeat Uther.
Notes: To those who own The Shooting Script, notice how the text takes up only half the page, as though content has been erased. The bird is never mentioned again in the unpublished final shooting script. It makes one think that the dialogue was almost copied and pasted when Vortigern asks Mab what she wants in return for the jeweled statue, and her reply is "To show you how to defeat Uther." Perhaps sleepyqueenie is psychic to have drawn Queen Mab with a bird. merlinschambers.proboards.com/post/12652/thread Their art was posted on the same day (June 30th) as I took the photos of the script, including the one above. I finished the script at least a few weeks before the photos were taken.
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Post by himiko on Dec 3, 2018 13:29:40 GMT
Thanks so much for all your work sharing these changes with us!
My first thought is that if Vortigern takes something that starts as the weight of a bird and suddenly becomes the weight of a statue then most likely he's either going to fall over or drop it straight on his foot, which might not be the warm start to the meeting that Mab was going for XD
I'm guessing they decided that it wasn't worth the cost of the effects/ hiring of a bird just for this one brief scene. I think you're probably right regarding the cut-and-paste dialogue from that scene though.
I also think that the moon-trick works better in the scene with Nimue than with Arthur*. There doesn't seem to be a lot of point to the scene with Arthur, other than setting up Merlin's magic for the audience (which we already know by this point in the film because of the scene re-ordering).
* My only issue is that for all that Merlin describes it as "not real magic" and a trick, it's definitely filmed in a way to suggest he was using magic, rather than a trick of perspective and watching the clouds.
With having all the horses talk and make jokes between themselves, it seems like in the early drafts they were maybe going for more of a "Sword in the Stone" type approach, rather than the more character-driven one they went for in the end. Same with the initial suggestion for the beginning. Having it start with Arthur, and Merlin recounting the earlier stuff to him makes it seem like the miniseries is going to be centred around the relationship between Merlin and Arthur - and whilst Arthur is an important part of the story, and he's clearly important to Merlin, his birth, and Merlin's hopes for him, aren't really introduced until the closing act of Part 1. It's Merlin and Mab's conflict that drives the story, so it makes more sense for the telling of the tale to start with the origins of that conflict, rather than the origins of Arthur.
I don't have the books to hand - was Book 2's last scene where Arthur leaves to find the grail? I know Mordred's archery practice is one of the first scenes in Book 3, so I'm assuming it's around that time. I will look out the books and have a read through it.
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Dec 3, 2018 20:56:09 GMT
No. Not too good of a start. True. Much better to have it start with conflict. I also agree that the moon coin scene is much better with Nimue. I have always thought Merlin was stretching the truth in regards to the trick. Perhaps not only to convince Nimue but himself as well. It's been years since I've seen the Sword in the Stone. I didn't realize the horse's dialogue in the scripts could possibly be an homage. Book 2 ends with Arthur leaving Camelot in search of the Holy Grail. Last page: Arthur is gone. Merlin sighed, feeling suddenly old. He goes to chase dreams - shadows. The vision that had come to him last night weighted his bones with foreknowledge, but like Cassandra at the walls of Troy, it would do no one any good for him to tell what he knew. Arthur would not have listened, and how could any of them escape their futures? Sadly, he watched Guinevere and Lancelot as they stood together upon the battlements, and waited for their future to begin. Also, in regards to the different version of the shooting script, I just read a note I made which says that the script made no mention of Mab watching Merlin after Nimue was attacked by the dragon. I'm including two deleted scenes because they appear one after the other.
Unpublished Final Shooting Script Deleted Scenes
INT. AVALON ABBEY. NIGHT The great abbey is lit by hundreds and hundreds of candles of all shapes and sizes. They're everywhere - on the altars, ledges, pulpits, pews. They even illuminate the magnificent stained glass windows of Christ and the Virgin Mary. Monks come down the centre aisle, carrying candles and chanting whilst high up in the vestry. A SINGLE YOUNG GIRL sings exquisitely: a Latin hymm in a high soprano voice. INT. NIMUE'S CELL. ABBEY, AVALON. NIGHT NIMUE is semi-conscious in bed, being attended by nuns who are making her drink herbal remedies. The room is lined with huge jars of herbs and strings of dead lizards and insects hang from the ceiling. The NUNS burn medicinal incense which fills the air with thick yellow, red and green smoke. OLD MERLIN'S VOICE: Whilst the monks prayed and I thought of revenge, the nuns were more practical. They used their knowledge of ancient herbs and potions to try to save my only love.
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Dec 3, 2018 21:09:20 GMT
Another very short scene with just a few changes in dialogue.
Unpublished Final Shooting Script version
INT. CORRIDOR. NUN'S CELL. AVALON. DAY FATHER ABBOT takes MERLIN along the corridor to NIMUE's room. FATHER ABBOT: She's resting now, but the worse is over.
MERLIN: I'm forever in your debt, Father Abbot.
FATHER ABBOT stops outside a cell door and peers up at the number. FATHER ABBOT: Ah yes, Number 16 ... this is the poor girl's cell.
MERLIN: This is Number 15. Would you like me to improve your eyesight?
FATHER ABBOT: (brusquely) There's nothing wrong with my eyesight. I'm sometimes a little absent minded but I've got perfect vision.
He knocks at cell door and goes in.
Published Final Shooting Script version
INT. CORRIDOR. NUN'S CELL. AVALON. DAY FATHER ABBOT takes MERLIN along the corridor to NIMUE's room. FATHER ABBOT: She's resting now, but the worst is over. MERLIN: I'm forever in your debt, Father Abbot. FATHER ABBOT stops outside a cell door and peers up at the number.
FATHER ABBOT: Ah yes, Number 16 ... this is the poor girl's cell. MERLIN: This is number 15. Father ... 15! He moves to the next door.
FATHER ABBOT: (muttering) It's an easy mistake to make ... 15 and 16, very similar ... it's got nothing to do with my eyesight!
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Post by Morgan le Fay on Dec 16, 2018 21:48:50 GMT
Regarding an earlier post questioning Charlotte Church's role in Merlin: I listened to Steve Barron's commentary again and have copied what he said.
"This Christian church, we actually had Charlotte Church to sing - for the vocalist - who did a little piece of the music for that. We actually filmed her doing that, and were at one time going to have her at the front of that scene. But it was just time. It rattled, we needed to rattle on with the story, and not stop for any pauses, the way we cut it in the end. But she did a really nice solo virtuoso performance for us."
Mr. Barron says this about 3:20 into the commentary, during the prologue when a monk is killed by an axe to the back.
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