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Post by himiko on Sept 25, 2008 23:32:26 GMT
So, the board is dying, it and it's members need a kick up the arse, and insulting characters is now clearly neccessary to provoke discussion.
So, is Frik pointless? TO what extent? And justify your view. And actually post. Please. ;D
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Post by Lane of Magic on Sept 25, 2008 23:44:36 GMT
I tend to agree, actually. XXD
He was there for comic relief mainly, and he had his uses, I admit, but not to an extent where he was irreplaceable. If anything, things might have turned out better, had he not been around – I’ll give an example from the books here: he was the main reason why Merlin lost whatever already small interest he had in magic. And I do believe there was enough that was wrong as it was, we didn’t need Frik to bugger everything up any further.
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Post by himiko on Sept 26, 2008 0:11:39 GMT
I won't deny that Frik buggered a lot of stuff up, particularly for Mab. But I don't know that that makes him entirely useless.
I guess it depends on what we mean by his uselessness? Is he useless as an assistant to Mab's plans- well, yes, or possibly even worse, a direct impediment to her and them, later in the film.
But is he useless to the film as a whole? Well, as you say, he provides some comic relief, a lighter-hearted side to the film. In terms of moving the plot along, his role is admittedly, mainly in the background, but he's responsible for a few key events like bringing Morgan into the fold, and of course, pointing Merlin towards Nimue at the end. In the book, he's also responsible for teaching Merlin magic in the first place, and for finding the Horn and helping Merlin make the people "forget" Mab. Whilst I don't LIKE a lot of these actions, they certainly weren't insignificant to the plot, by and large. Whether or not things might have turned out better without him, he still had an effect, to some degree.
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Post by Lane of Magic on Sept 26, 2008 0:49:00 GMT
No, I did admit he wasn’t completely useless. And as far as the whole movie goes, he’s of course a great character, and the film wouldn’t be the same without him or any of the others.
But yes, he did cease to be of any help (to Mab) at one point, and, if not pointless, was more of a hindrance.
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Zocha
Merlin's Apprentice
Something wicked this way comes
Posts: 188
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Post by Zocha on Sept 26, 2008 16:46:37 GMT
I'll just say no. Martin Short fangirlness aside ... no, I don't think I was pointless. He might've been useful to Mab at one point, but we're not shown that. He is highly intelligent and skilled in magic, so I can understand why Mab wanted him around. Mab's biggest mistake (forgive me!) was making Frik train Merlin. Had she done some one-on-one training with Merlin, he might've had more sympathy for her in the end. I don't think he'd be completely devoted to her since she killed Ambrosia and his mum-- sorry! Let them die, I mean. ;D
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Accolon
Merlin's Apprentice
Posts: 259
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Post by Accolon on Sept 28, 2008 21:21:47 GMT
1. How else to illustrate a Dom-slave relationship? With a Dom like Mab around, she has to have a slave.
2. Without Frik, Mab would have been forced to train Merlin. But with Frik around, we got to see Mab's beautifully keen, to the point of self-destructive, habit of being selfish and lazy. Just like any proper fairy queen. How can SHE be BOTHERED to deal with such trivialities as training her son to do magic? Such things are BENEATH her.
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Post by Zoicite on Oct 5, 2008 22:45:46 GMT
Actually, if there was no Frik, then Mab and Morgan would have been forced to interact more (because there's no way Mab would have left Morgan alone, even if only because she herself would never seduce Arthur, or manage it. Merlin, knowing him, would suddenly know and come rushing back or whatnot)
and therefore, no Frik=More Magan.
So Frik can go away now.
EDIT: I love how my signature cuts Frik out benhind Merlin somewhere. See, they're a happy family without him. XD
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Post by himiko on Oct 5, 2008 23:58:18 GMT
Actually, if there was no Frik, then Mab and Morgan would have been forced to interact more (because there's no way Mab would have left Morgan alone, even if only because she herself would never seduce Arthur, or manage it. Merlin, knowing him, would suddenly know and come rushing back or whatnot) and therefore, no Frik=More Magan. So Frik can go away now. EDIT: I love how my signature cuts Frik out benhind Merlin somewhere. See, they're a happy family without him. XD Hmmm, I suppose so, but then, Merlin knew about Morgan and Arthur- indeed, because Mab decided to gloat about it in the candle wax, LOL- and still didn't manage to stop it. So in that sense, I imagine it would be possible for Mab to have seduced Arthur herself- though of course, she would have had to change her own appearance, him having seen her before. Anyways, that's more to do with the relevance of Morgan to the plot than with Frik, so I shall leave that for now. In all honesty, I think Frik may have been the better "go-between" than Mab for Morgan. It could be because I'm not a Magan shipper, but in all honesty, I can't see Mab having the patience and energy to keep pandering to Morgan's ego and general selfishness (I don't mean that in a bad way) once she had Mordred, who, let's be honest, had the far stronger claim to the throne between he and Morgan.
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Post by Zoicite on Oct 6, 2008 0:05:27 GMT
So I guess it all comes down to the fact that we love Helena more than Martin Short. Or soemthing like that. Morgan stays cause she's pretty? But would Mab really have lowered herself to seducing Arthur? She likes to use others, and not get her own hands dirty.
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Post by himiko on Oct 6, 2008 0:15:14 GMT
LOL, I don't know, at the moment I like certain aspects of both actors and both characters. If I had to pick one of the two charries, in all honesty, I'd probably pick Frik, sowwy... Hmmm, as for Mab seducing Arthur... I think if she'd had to, then yes, she probably would have. I agree, she'd probably prefer not to, though, and with Morgan, who hated Arthur and wanted the throne for herself, available and willing, of course it made more sense to use her. Not to mention, it then gave Mordred a double claim to the throne- Arthur's illegitimate son AND his nephew. Though, of course, he didn't bother using the second connection in the end, LOL. Bless his violent little heart. But I guess we're going slightly off the topic of Frik now...
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Post by Zoicite on Oct 6, 2008 0:48:11 GMT
Well, that's what these threads are for.
I think Frik is okay, but if I had to choose, I'd pick Morgan.
So I guess they /both/ stay. Hooray! ;D
Yeah, Frik is alright, but it would have been nice if he had a bigger part, then we would likely care more.
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Post by Lane of Magic on Oct 8, 2008 19:15:38 GMT
ROFL! I was just wondering how long before this thread also turned into a Mab or Mab pairing discussion. And since I’m on the subject of her seducing Arthur… I don’t know what she would have done, if Morgan had not been an option. Still, I can’t really see her doing it herself, just because if it hadn’t been Morgan, it would’ve been someone else. Or something more subtle, such as the curse. Slightly ontopic: Frik or Morgan? I fear I’d also go for Frik, if I absolutely had to choose. I was never too keen on Morgan (and that’s strictly to do with the character, not the actress, I must say), and I always liked Frik. Good thing this isn’t an eliminatory game! [/ontopic]Also! Offtopic: Accolon. Loved the points you made. Regarding no.2, however, I tend to disagree. Selfish? She gave up part of herself to create Merlin, and took whatever risk came with the decision of creating this new life. Lazy? I personally doubt it. Not in her current situation, anyway. For instance, once she realised what a mistake it was not being around till Merlin grew up, she made sure to do things differently where Mordred was concerned (yeah, she might have overdone it there, but that’s beside the point). “Beneath” her or not, there was probably nothing she wouldn’t have done to save her people (she let Elaine know about Lancelot/Guinevere, because it seemed like a good idea at the time, and despite it being “unworthy”, as Frik so kindly pointed out to her). If anything, I think it would be impatience more than anything else. [/offtopic]
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Post by Zoicite on Oct 15, 2008 21:40:11 GMT
You make a wonderful point or fifty, Laney. *grabs Morgan to prevent her disappearing with two votes against her*
These things /always/ revolve around Mab, and I think (all fangirliness aside) that's because she tends to create them, in a way. What Would Mab Do is pretty much ALL of Merlin.
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Post by himiko on Oct 16, 2008 1:42:59 GMT
Indeed, Mab's war, and her creation of Merlin, is the setting point for the whole film, and the war between the two of them is the driving force behind the film. Everything else- Arthur, Guinevere, Camelot- are merely parts of a far greater "plot".
I personally find that the "bad guy" side tends to be more knit into the main plotline than the "good" side- by which I mean, characters like Morgan and Mordred seem to be more closely tied to Mab (and Frik) than the Arthurian people are to Merlin (with the exception of Arthur). In Camelot, Merlin seems very much a distant figure, in the background, an advisor but nothing more, except to Arthur, whereas with Morgan as Frik's lover, and Mordred as Mab's "nephew"/champion, they seem far more a part of the overriding Merlin vs. Mab plot, due to their closeness to it. If that makes any sense. I am rambling now.
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Accolon
Merlin's Apprentice
Posts: 259
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Post by Accolon on Oct 16, 2008 5:17:11 GMT
Hmm, WWMD... what would Mab do? If you are ever in a dilemma and not sure what to do, just ask yourself WWMD... and then don't do it, because it would probably be a bad idea for a mortal to try.
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