Question of Age

[Mabforever]

Merlin a cartoon version is portrayed as an old wizard and Arthur a young boy (not sure which film), in the BBC Arthur is ages with Merlin, and in our version Arthur grows up with Merlin who is middle aged. Which do you prefer?

[fishinthesea]

Well, in my mind Merlin was always an ancient man, like Merlin is in the movie right at the beginning. But I thought that making him young/middle aged was a nice touch.

[Mabforever]

Yeah I always saw Merlin as a Dumbledore from Harry Potter look alike, www.nedgallagher.com/journal/images/AlbusDumbledore.jpg

But I like our Merlin, he's not to grumpy or to "the world is all lovely let's all be happy"
Sam Neil really did him justice imo.

[himiko]

I'm going to surprise noone and say I prefer how its done in Merlin (our Merlin, not BBC Merlin), but I think they all have their advantages.

With having Merlin as an old man, it gives a sense of wisdom, knowledge, etc- not saying he couldn't have that as a younger man, but as his role is as Arthur's teacher, in Sword in the Stone, and little else, it works well.

Young Merlin works well for the BBC series, as it allows him to be of the "adventuring age", with Arthur, Morgana, etc. and, I suppose, appeals to the target audience, which appears to be families and young people. The main characters in such shows do tend to be young, and (arguably) pretty. I'm wondering, however, when Merlin gets to step out of the servant/secret protector/ friend role, and become the legendary wizard and advisor of legend?

Having him middle aged when Arthur becomes king works well in the mini series. He's old enough to have set up his own quests, and story, separate from Arthur, and old enough to be convincing as a teacher and advisor. And yet, there's still plenty of his story to tell. I mean, the whole story of Arthur is a big part of Merlin's life, so for me, its nice to see it situated kind of in the middle, if that makes any sense?

[Mabforever]

I'm going to surprise noone and say I prefer how its done in Merlin (our Merlin, not BBC Merlin), but I think they all have their advantages.
LOL yes, I much prefer bbc's Morgana though, I love HBC I adore her I honestly do but I prefer Katie as her and I think it's perhaps because she's how I pictured Morgana. HBC is a very interesting Morgan I love what she did with the character. Perhaps it's because I pictured her hair to be like Katie's maybe it's cause I prefer her with magick I dunno.

With having Merlin as an old man, it gives a sense of wisdom, knowledge, etc- not saying he couldn't have that as a younger man, but as his role is as Arthur's teacher, in Sword in the Stone, and little else, it works well.
Yeah our Merlin, it's nice to see him grow into his wisdom instead of always having it.

Young Merlin works well for the BBC series, as it allows him to be of the "adventuring age", with Arthur, Morgana, etc. and, I suppose, appeals to the target audience, which appears to be families and young people. The main characters in such shows do tend to be young, and (arguably) pretty. I'm wondering, however, when Merlin gets to step out of the servant/secret protector/ friend role, and become the legendary wizard and advisor of legend?

Yes, I agree, and Colin is a doll but as above with Morgan(a) he's just not my vision of Merlin, Sam however is just how I've always pictured Merlin or at least someone similar to him. I dont know where I get my imagery from. I adore, Sam, Katie, Helena and Colin they're great but I have set images :L And Im sure Colin will cope with Merlin's transformation in character as well as Katie has Morgana's.

Having him middle aged when Arthur becomes king works well in the mini series. He's old enough to have set up his own quests, and story, separate from Arthur, and old enough to be convincing as a teacher and advisor. And yet, there's still plenty of his story to tell. I mean, the whole story of Arthur is a big part of Merlin's life, so for me, its nice to see it situated kind of in the middle, if that makes any sense?
Yes it does I know what you mean, but one thing bbc Merlin does not have is that of Miranda playing Mab. And as long as they dont have that well it will never match up :L There are actually some vids on youtube. mini series arthur/ merlin 98 lady of the lake, mini series Merlin/Mab, and Morgana /Mab which is quite cool. They're both good mini series and 98. But only one has Mab and thats what it comes down too.

[himiko]

Oh, yes, that is true BBC series is always going to be at a disavantage for that.

TBH, I'm not much of a fan of the BBC series. I think Katie McGrath has definitely improved and grown into her role, though. I hate Arthur in the series with a fiery, burning passion. The boyfriend watches it, though, so I've seen a fair amount of episodes XD But, yeah, its not how I picture the legends, though seeing Sword in the Stone and Merlin at a young age probably didn't help that

I will give you Morgana over Morgan, though. She's a more central character, and drives the plot along more, which probably helps. Also, she uses her magic and plots of her own to acheive her goals, where Morgan (admittedly without powers) mostly goes along with Mab and Frik and then pretty much just waits for Mordred to take care of the rest. But then, Merlin (1998) already has their super-sorceress enemy, I suppose it would have been fairly pointless having Morgan doing essentially the same thing as Mab, but with less power.

[Mabforever]

Oh, yes, that is true BBC series is always going to be at a disavantage for that.
There's only one Mab and Miranda's her.

TBH, I'm not much of a fan of the BBC series. I think Katie McGrath has definitely improved and grown into her role, though. I hate Arthur in the series with a fiery, burning passion. The boyfriend watches it, though, so I've seen a fair amount of episodes XD But, yeah, its not how I picture the legends, though seeing Sword in the Stone and Merlin at a young age probably didn't help that
Fair enough lol it took me a while to grow into it. And yes Katie has come along great. Why do you hate Arthur so much? I think Bradley is rather cute

I will give you Morgana over Morgan, though. She's a more central character, and drives the plot along more, which probably helps. Also, she uses her magic and plots of her own to acheive her goals, where Morgan (admittedly without powers) mostly goes along with Mab and Frik and then pretty much just waits for Mordred to take care of the rest. But then, Merlin (1998) already has their super-sorceress enemy, I suppose it would have been fairly pointless having Morgan doing essentially the same thing as Mab, but with less power.
Maybe that is it Morgan isn't as needed as Morgana, having two very similar looking strong characters may not have worked. Yet then again...would have been quite good to see Mab take Morgana under her wing and teach her.

[himiko]

I find Arthur to be a massive asshole, LOL XD Will have so much more respect for Merlin the day he bitchslaps Arthur silly. He's getting better, but after 3 series, still don't find him likeable, I'm afraid.

Hmmm, Mab taking Morgan under her wing would have been interesting, and I suspect, had they gone the route of Morgan having magical powers of her own, either Mab would have "trained her" as a rival for Merlin- not neccessarily to kill him, but perhaps to neutralise him while she (Mab) dealt with Mordred and so on, or kept the story much the same, but had Frik train her with magic.

Both could have presented interesting turns to the plot- Morgan clearly has her issues with Merlin, understandably so, and if the two of them fought (prior to the conclusion of the film), Mab might have taken it unfavourably if Morgan were to kill her son. In the second case, I imagine things would have progressed similarly to how they did, but perhaps Morgan would have been overconfident in her ability, and tried to fight Mab with magic when she took Mordred away. I think the outcome would have been the same, though...

[Mabforever]

I find Arthur to be a massive asshole, LOL XD Will have so much more respect for Merlin the day he bitchslaps Arthur silly. He's getting better, but after 3 series, still don't find him likeable, I'm afraid.
LoL fair point, he is rather full of himself and constantly bloody defending Uther. Out of the entire cast though it's Guinevere I want to throttle I hate her, she's so stupid and grrrr. Angel Im sure is a lovely woman but I figured Lena to look more like Guinevere she's my invision of her. Anyhoo in the tv series she's so annoying for one thing she's a servant, another she falls in love with every guy. There was a will they/wont they with her and Merlin, there's her and Arthur, her and Lancelot, her and Gwaine. I just want to hit her.

Hmmm, Mab taking Morgan under her wing would have been interesting, and I suspect, had they gone the route of Morgan having magical powers of her own, either Mab would have "trained her" as a rival for Merlin- not neccessarily to kill him, but perhaps to neutralise him while she (Mab) dealt with Mordred and so on, or kept the story much the same, but had Frik train her with magic.
Oooooh, Im totally having fic ideas. I'd love too right some Mab/Morgana. I dunno though. See I saw a video with them that's very inspiring. But yes Morgan having powers in Merlin could have changed things. Would Mab have still needed Mordred and for that Merlin. Why did she never have a female to be champion? Ok maybe that could have caused some problems when it came to the crown, but perhaps a woman would have been more loyal with the ability to sympathise more? If she were part fae said woman that again would be a different story but a female with magick may have worked to Mab's advantage. Maybe Im wrong thoughts?

Both could have presented interesting turns to the plot- Morgan clearly has her issues with Merlin, understandably so, and if the two of them fought (prior to the conclusion of the film), Mab might have taken it unfavourably if Morgan were to kill her son.
He didn't make her pwitty. I dunno how things would work if Morgan was powerful and Team Mab then she killed Merlin. Would Mab be upset or would she react the same way Merlin does to her death.

In the second case, I imagine things would have progressed similarly to how they did, but perhaps Morgan would have been overconfident in her ability, and tried to fight Mab with magic when she took Mordred away. I think the outcome would have been the same, though...
Ahhhh you have a fair point there, a better battle scene but yes Morgan probs would have still *slipped down the stairs*

[himiko]

1) Yeah, I know what you mean about Gwen... And yeah, Morgana was a "good" character before she went evil because she was one of the few who would openly challenge Uther about his magical-genocide behaviour. Arthur's constant defense of him is irritating, much as I like Anthony Head as Uther. If they'd made Uther this kind of character in our Merlin, I suspect he'd have been much more a thorn in Mab and Merlin's side than just going insane to himself.

2) I think Mab would still have wanted Mordred, and Merlin. At the start, she doesn't just want a wizard for her cause, she wants a future leader, and a king, and she knows that a man is, though unfairly, going to have an easier time being accepted as the ruler of the country, at least at the moment, given the heavy Christian bias. I don't know that a woman would have been any more sympathetic to Mab's cause, not if she was human, like Morgan- its humanity that divides Mab and Merlin, IMO, not their respective genders. But I think had Morgan had magic of her own, she would have been a useful ally, in a sense of cancelling out Merlin.

3) Hmmm... good question. Reconsidering, I think Mab might have been able to look past Merlin's death at the bigger picture, but I suspect she'd have tried to avoid it, as she did in the film (shutting him away with Nimue, etc.) up until the end. So if Merlin was killed by Morgan, and not at Mab's wishes, I imagine she'd lose Mab's favour. I don't think she'd show her feelings to Morgan, whether she would grieve for Merlin in private is a mystery.

4)INdeed. I can kind of picture the battle in my head... don't know what Frik would do, though... Maybe try and shield Morgan, or pull her away from the fight, knowing that Mab was more powerful. I don't see him joining the fight to attack Mab, he doesn't even attack her directly after Morgan's death, before she removes his powers.

[Mabforever]

1) Yeah, I know what you mean about Gwen... And yeah, Morgana was a "good" character before she went evil because she was one of the few who would openly challenge Uther about his magical-genocide behaviour. Arthur's constant defense of him is irritating, much as I like Anthony Head as Uther. If they'd made Uther this kind of character in our Merlin, I suspect he'd have been much more a thorn in Mab and Merlin's side than just going insane to himself.

Yeah Gwen needs to die if ever a woman needed to die it was her I can understand totally why Morgana is the way she is. She did constantly argue with Uther, she got locked up for it and it turns out she was his own daughter. There was always the chance she could be magickal but he didn't care he simply sent her away. Same with Arthur, he was only born due to magick. So I totally get Morgana's anger he's executing people for doing something that he's ok with doing himself. Yeah I love Anthony, and hate Uther it's heart wrenching Arthur should have stood up to him more though. Yeah had Uther been played like this I wonder how Merlin would have dealt with that? Maybe no change, but yeah definitley he would have been a bigger problem. Miranda should totally go in as Mab for a few seasons that'd be really cool.


2) I think Mab would still have wanted Mordred, and Merlin. At the start, she doesn't just want a wizard for her cause, she wants a future leader, and a king, and she knows that a man is, though unfairly, going to have an easier time being accepted as the ruler of the country, at least at the moment, given the heavy Christian bias. I don't know that a woman would have been any more sympathetic to Mab's cause, not if she was human, like Morgan- its humanity that divides Mab and Merlin, IMO, not their respective genders. But I think had Morgan had magic of her own, she would have been a useful ally, in a sense of cancelling out Merlin.

Yeah fair point, a chick is going to have a harder time settling in still not impossible though. Alot great leader's have been Queen's including Mab but she is also a goddess so she's kind of born into Queendom, of course Im talking further on in the future from the point with Elizabeth and whoever. (Im not great with royalty) Ah see I know what you mean it is humanity that divides Mab and Merlin, but I still think that if Morgan were Mordred, like she had magick or something Mab would probably focus on her. I think Mab only saw Morgan as someone who could bare a child that was it, Morgan however says to Merlin she is very grateful to Mab and her magick so I reckon she doesn't have anything against Mab until she knocks Frik about and takes her son. So if Mab didn't need Mordred and did need Morgan I reckon it would be Morgan getting all of the 'my sweets' and 'my dears' does that make any sense at all or am I rambling :L

3) Hmmm... good question. Reconsidering, I think Mab might have been able to look past Merlin's death at the bigger picture, but I suspect she'd have tried to avoid it, as she did in the film (shutting him away with Nimue, etc.) up until the end. So if Merlin was killed by Morgan, and not at Mab's wishes, I imagine she'd lose Mab's favour. I don't think she'd show her feelings to Morgan, whether she would grieve for Merlin in private is a mystery.

Agreed. Damn see we wouldn't have this problem if Mab was in a tv series and it showed peaks of her emotion. Oh grrr.

4)INdeed. I can kind of picture the battle in my head... don't know what Frik would do, though... Maybe try and shield Morgan, or pull her away from the fight, knowing that Mab was more powerful. I don't see him joining the fight to attack Mab, he doesn't even attack her directly after Morgan's death, before she removes his powers.

LMAO I just pictured Frik running around like a headless chicken. Yeah probably, I wonder if Mab would be up for the chase haha. Frik despite his words will always be a coward.

[himiko]

LOL, I think Mab on BBC-Merlin would certainly make for a vast improvment. I think she would certainly have her issues with Uther As far as how Merlin (Sam Neill) would have dealt with BBC-Uther, perhaps he would have temporarily called a truce with Mab to get rid of Uther entirely Saying that, in "Merlin", Mab, Frik and Merlin are about the only characters (excluding novelisation characters) that are ever shown to have magical powers during Uther's reign- possibly the only ones in the film. So if Uther left pagans alone, and went after only magic users, then if Merlin avoided him, which I think he did anyway, or hid from him if neccessary, he probably wouldn't have had much of an effect. If he want after pagans, on the other hand, see my first suggestion. Mab would be pissed, and while Merlin has many bad points, I don't see him giving thumbs up to randomly murdering every pagan he encounters.

[Mabforever]

LOL, I think Mab on BBC-Merlin would certainly make for a vast improvment.
Agreed!

I think she would certainly have her issues with Uther
And kick his ass and be all buddy buddy with Morgana and Morgause

As far as how Merlin (Sam Neill) would have dealt with BBC-Uther, perhaps he would have temporarily called a truce with Mab to get rid of Uther entirely

Yaaaaaay ! Im liking this better by the second.

Saying that, in "Merlin", Mab, Frik and Merlin are about the only characters (excluding novelisation characters) that are ever shown to have magical powers during Uther's reign- possibly the only ones in the film.

Oh yeah....were they the only ones? I actually just realised.

So if Uther left pagans alone, and went after only magic users, then if Merlin avoided him, which I think he did anyway, or hid from him if neccessary, he probably wouldn't have had much of an effect.
Getting better I love Anthony but...huh I may even warm to an Uther/Mab pairing in this sense...yeah I know but Im sure someone somewhere could work something out.

If he want after pagans, on the other hand, see my first suggestion. Mab would be pissed, and while Merlin has many bad points, I don't see him giving thumbs up to randomly murdering every pagan he encounters.
So Mab/Merlin truce! Great super now we cant do that but we can still put Mab in Merlin. Right who has the phone numbers for Miranda and the Merlin guys? Anyone?