Should Merlin have tried to make peace with Mab?

[himiko]

OK, was pondering this in the "Merlin: Love or Hate" thread, and thought I might as well create a new thread for it.

Now, given the title, I should quickly point out that I do know that Merlin does make Mab an offer of peace in the third book, and that she turns it down (I might type the passage up in the future, if I can find it), though no such exchange took place in the film.

My question is, do you think Merlin should have tried harder to make peace with Mab? I feel a little deja vu here, I suspect I've asked something similar before. But essentially:

- By the second film, Merlin's goals seem much more concentrated on "mending broken Britain", to borrow a political quote , than on fighting Mab. I realise that Merlin believe that by putting a strong Christian king on the throne, Mab will die out anyway, but he does seem to care more about Arthur and strengthening the kingdom than this particular aspect.

- Merlin isn't religious, at all, so far as we can tell, despite his lover and his close friend being Christian, and being created by the Queen of the Old Ways. Should some kind of compromise be reached that would allow Mab and her kind to survive, whilst Britain would still have a strong and fair king, wouldn't cause a problem for Merlin in terms of religion- as far as I can tell, other than Mab herself, he has little objection to paganism itself.

- Merlin cares about Arthur, Camelot and Britain. Mab as his enemy, and as someone fighting for her existence, is a HUGE threat to Camelot, the biggest they face. Not only does she have pretty much control over the only heir to the throne, she has tremendous magical powers, etc. Merlin and Mab's battle leads Camelot itself to a battle, and Arthur and Mordred to their deaths. If Merlin has reached the point where he can put his hatred aside to make a peace attempt for the country's sake, why does he not try at least one more time? Surely if he can get some agreement where Christianity and the Old Ways can coexist, for a while, at least, then this would be a more satisfactory solution than simply saying "So, I want to make friends. You K to fade away now?".

Now, I realise I place a lot of the emphasis on Merlin here. I realise he does try, once. But Mab isn't realistically going to approach him to make peace unless she believes he can, and will, make her a much better offer. Which means, if he really is serious about making peace with such a huge threat to Camelot, he should have given it a better attempt.

I also realise that its not just Merlin and Mab's willingness to make peace that this rests on- Arthur and his knights, and Mordred, etc. would all have to be worked around, too, and I've definitely typed something before about why that would be hard.... so, yeah... will try and find that post...

[Mabforever]

OK, was pondering this in the "Merlin: Love or Hate" thread, and thought I might as well create a new thread for it.
Oh yay new thread time

Now, given the title, I should quickly point out that I do know that Merlin does make Mab an offer of peace in the third book, and that she turns it down (I might type the passage up in the future, if I can find it), though no such exchange took place in the film.
Well dolly I've never read the books so Im sort of just going by yours and anyone else's word. Im gutted always wanted to read them. But yeah we can safely say it dont happen in the film.

My question is, do you think Merlin should have tried harder to make peace with Mab? I feel a little deja vu here, I suspect I've asked something similar before.
Um my immediate answer is yes of course and I dont think you've asked me before but I have a short memory :L

But essentially:
- By the second film, Merlin's goals seem much more concentrated on "mending broken Britain", to borrow a political quote , than on fighting Mab. I realise that Merlin believe that by putting a strong Christian king on the throne, Mab will die out anyway, but he does seem to care more about Arthur and strengthening the kingdom than this particular aspect.
Mmmm he does, but he's pitying Mab at this point which sort of downers the relationship again.He's focused on putting a strong King on the throne but tbh I dont know why he needs to be Christian. Ok fine, Mordred is evil, Mab is a little twisted but why the hell does that mean the King has to be Christian look at Uther ok so if he's pagan Mab wins, what's so bad about that? Yeah she hurt Merlin but whats to say she wasn't good for the country?


- Merlin isn't religious, at all, so far as we can tell, despite his lover and his close friend being Christian, and being created by the Queen of the Old Ways. Should some kind of compromise be reached that would allow Mab and her kind to survive, whilst Britain would still have a strong and fair king, wouldn't cause a problem for Merlin in terms of religion- as far as I can tell, other than Mab herself, he has little objection to paganism itself.
Agreed all makes sense I've actually accidently ranted the same thing above I think :L. But yeah Merlin has no real religion which is rather ironic. I think he is a little selfish in that sense. Mab may be a bitch sometimes to him but still I think she's a pretty damn good goddess and queen.

- Merlin cares about Arthur, Camelot and Britain. Mab as his enemy, and as someone fighting for her existence, is a HUGE threat to Camelot, the biggest they face. Not only does she have pretty much control over the only heir to the throne, she has tremendous magical powers, etc. Merlin and Mab's battle leads Camelot itself to a battle, and Arthur and Mordred to their deaths. If Merlin has reached the point where he can put his hatred aside to make a peace attempt for the country's sake, why does he not try at least one more time? Surely if he can get some agreement where Christianity and the Old Ways can coexist, for a while, at least, then this would be a more satisfactory solution than simply saying "So, I want to make friends. You K to fade away now?".

I dont see why she needs to be a problem. They obviously existed in harmony before yet, because of the new faith she is exonerated for no good reason. Why is she really a threat, other than to Uther I mean and it's basically him forcing everyone to be Christian. And shouldn't the country to be pleased to have a strong goddess on there side? You would think compromise, but that could cause major problems on both parts with a split faith.
"So, I want to make friends. You K to fade away now?"
Pmsl !

Now, I realise I place a lot of the emphasis on Merlin here. I realise he does try, once. But Mab isn't realistically going to approach him to make peace unless she believes he can, and will, make her a much better offer. Which means, if he really is serious about making peace with such a huge threat to Camelot, he should have given it a better attempt.

Why the hell couldn't Merlin take his place on the throne? Best solution is it not? He could be a good and just king, he sees tolerant of both religions though supporting neither. A good King for the people and a solution to the problem plus he gets Nimue back to beautiful and in a palace. All he'd need to do is pander to Mab's needs. It seems a little selfish of him in that part.

I also realise that its not just Merlin and Mab's willingness to make peace that this rests on- Arthur and his knights, and Mordred, etc. would all have to be worked around, too, and I've definitely typed something before about why that would be hard.... so, yeah... will try and find that post...

Ok Merlin and Mab. I think they're problem is when they're fighting they think of they're squabbles together instead of the bigger picture with the country they dont do it all the time just when they are with each other. Mordred he's bloody twisted he'd never come around ever. More of a chance with Arthur still pretty doubtful.

[himiko]

Merlin as king... maybe. I don't think he saw himself as a ruler, TBH, I'm not sure he would have wanted it. Though, I agree, I think he'd certainly got potential to do a good balancing act between the religions. And, in a way, it would give him greater sway to keep Mab in check, because the whole film shows that its bad for her when rulers start to misbehave

The question is, of course, would he have been accepted? By Part 2, Christianity is the dominant religion in Britain. Merlin is a wizard, seen as pagan, with no blood ties to the throne- not to Arthur or his line, not even to Vortigern. (Actually, in the books he has a small tie- his mother is the daughter of the Queen of Orkney. I assume she was cast out of the family when she was chucked out of Avalon for getting pregnant. Lot is often associated with the Orkneys, I believe, so perhaps Merlin has a small blood relation to Gawain and Lot... Hmmm, interesting... wonder if he knows much about his mother's family...) Even if it turned out he was loosely related to Gawain, it seemed a lot of Arthur's knights didn't really trust Merlin, presumably because he was a wizard. I think him getting the throne would have been troubling.

[Mabforever]

Merlin as king... maybe. I don't think he saw himself as a ruler, TBH, I'm not sure he would have wanted it. Though, I agree, I think he'd certainly got potential to do a good balancing act between the religions. And, in a way, it would give him greater sway to keep Mab in check, because the whole film shows that its bad for her when rulers start to misbehave

Exactly ! Isnt it the most beneficial solution? Merlin's king, Nimue's queen, Mab's kept happy, thousands of people aren't killed. It seems Mab had the best idea from the beginning.

The question is, of course, would he have been accepted? By Part 2, Christianity is the dominant religion in Britain. Merlin is a wizard, seen as pagan, with no blood ties to the throne- not to Arthur or his line, not even to Vortigern. (Actually, in the books he has a small tie- his mother is the daughter of the Queen of Orkney. I assume she was cast out of the family when she was chucked out of Avalon for getting pregnant. Lot is often associated with the Orkneys, I believe, so perhaps Merlin has a small blood relation to Gawain and Lot... Hmmm, interesting... wonder if he knows much about his mother's family...) Even if it turned out he was loosely related to Gawain, it seemed a lot of Arthur's knights didn't really trust Merlin, presumably because he was a wizard. I think him getting the throne would have been troubling


Well I had no idea Merlin was tied to the throne at all as I say I just reckon it would have made the most sense. But through relations and all of that it would be alot more complicated. This whole situation gets more complicated the more you analyse it :L Im better sticking with the basic story if Im honest. Mab pretty and good Merlin bad.

[sleepyqueenie]

What if at the finale Mab had just waved her hand and taken Merlin's powers?

[himiko]

Did she have the power to do that by this point, though? She's still stronger than Merlin, but is it possible at this stage for her to take his magic as she did to Frik earlier?

[sleepyqueenie]

We would have to ask her. I like to think as the mistress of all magic she can take magic from whoever, wherever, whenever she wants no matter how weak she is. She is entitled to it. Would his magic have helped her regain her power a bit? Probably not much. I guess that finale fight was mostly both Merlin and her having to vent frustrations.

[maellowyn]

... he should have made peace. He had been wrong all the time ;D