Mab vs Idath

[sleepyqueenie]

This came up during a fanfic discussion I had with Mabforever.

What follows is my impression of Idath, a bit exaggerated. Illustrating how he belittles our dear queen and how cute she is when he does.

Mab defiantly looking up at Idath: "I will create a leader for the people! A powerful wizard to..." Idath suddenly notices her. "Gods, you are such a teeny tiny lady! You really can't do this on your own, lovey." Mab stands on the top of her toes. "Then I demand you help me!" Idath picks her up with one hand and puts her back in her own realm. "You silly girl." She pouts, grabs a hand full of crystals and starts throwing them at him. He simply smiles at her. Making her even more annoyed. Her face turning in anger to a most pixish expression.

Mabforever: I dont think Mab would respond well to being picked up or called a silly girl :L
Me: of course not. The fun was just getting started!

Mab continues shooting fire balls. They seem to have no effect whatsoever. He stands there smiling. She hisses at him. A change of tactics was in order. Mab walks towards him, slowly, letting his eyes feast on the sensuality of her movements and the softness with which the fabric of her dress caresses her skin. "why don't you fight me?" she asks with a cold smile, pretending slight amazement. He had never fought for her nor against her. His impartial attitude infuriated her. Was he, immortal Death, pitying the weakening goddess? She would not have his pity! She looked up at him again, tilting her head. The darkness of her gaze shrouded everything around them in shadows. His expression did not alter. In her most innocent voice she whispered "Can you do no other magic than looking in a cauldron?" For a split second her smile widened, then she turned round and left him standing there feeling utterly miserable and rejected.

Mabforever: she has the advantage of using her stunning looks to distract him.
Me: oooooh that's the only weapon she needs.
Mabforever: Indeed. as proven above I mean with looks like that all you'd need to do is flutter your eye lashes.
Me: This calls for a rewrite

Realising that throwing crystals and fireballs had no effect Mab stood perfectly still. She regained her proud and royal stature. Her eyes locked on his. Then... she fluttered her eye lashes. Idath felt his knees give in. A staring competition he could have won, but this, he had stood no chance. He was kneeling on the floor unable to move. He heard Mab's footsteps come closer. She ran her fingers roughly through his hair, then tipped him over. She left him lying motionless on the ground.

[glow=red,2,300]This brings us to the serious question: What would happen if Mab and Idath fought? Who would win? Please give your opinion-scenario. [/glow]

Personally: I know Death can’t be destroyed, but I can not imagine there being an atom left of him if he upset Mab either.

[himiko]

Its an interesting question, and brings to mind one I've wondered about for some time- Mab, Idath, Lady of the Lake, etc. are immortal beings, they presumably can't be killed by mortal means (though the question of whether they can be hurt by mortals is another one entirely- had Merlin's punch not been blocked by magic, would it have hit Mab, or was it simply impossible to land a punch? Could it have injured her?)- but can they hurt or kill each other with magic?

For purposes such as fanfics, I tend assume they can "hurt" each other with magic, in that they can, for example, throw a fireball at another and have it hit the other, and that a fight could cause immense devastation because of the power being used in it, but they couldn't kill each other with magic, due to their immortal natures. But I don't really have any evidence for that.

Similarly, there isn't really a lot of evidence to give a good indication of Idath's power. Off the top of my head:

- He has power over death, to some degree- Mab wants him to save Mordred when he dies, but he refuses.
- He possesses the Cauldron of Rebirth.
- He doesn't fear being forgotten, as mortals will always fear death.

I don't know, TBH. My gut feeling is that near the end of "Merlin", Idath would be more powerful than Mab, as she was growing weaker, and he had less to worry about from fading away. Before this, when both of them were at their full strength, I have no idea. I like to think they were on roughly the same level, power wise, but I don't know if their powers were even similar. We know that Mab's creation of Merlin grants him a long life, but its never shown that she has any powers over death beyond that. She can't see the future (we don't know if Idath can, without the cauldron, admittedly)- I don't know, I suspect the nature of their powers were quite different.

[Arwen17]

haha! that was a great story! ;D

I agree with Himiko about their natures being very different. They even have their own separate worlds they live in. I think they would be "equal" but they rule over completely separate domains and powers.

had Merlin's punch not been blocked by magic, would it have hit Mab, or was it simply impossible to land a punch? Could it have injured her?

That's something I've wondered for a long time. It seems like she might be invulnerable as an immortal because she mocks Merlin and the others even when in an extremely weakened state, "What are you going to do? Use your puny swords and axes on me?"


eesh, I wish we could have seen more Idath in the books. We have so little to go on concerning his character and relationship with Mab. He definitely doesn't fear her in the slightest in the books, but he doesn't seem to act like he still fancies her either. What do you think?
Whatever happened between them before seems like a closed chapter in the few scenes we have of them together.

Now in a relationship of Idath/Mab, would Mab or Idath be the dominant one? I've seen fanfics with either one as the dominant in the partnership.
Would Idath fall to his knees as the slightest flutter of eyelashes?
Or would Mab adore Idath because he's the one man would might actually have the power to put her in her place and make her feel love and vulnerability?
I find both scenarios sexually appealing lol.


Death is neutral. It takes who it wants regardless of the state of the world or who tries to interfere. Am I remembering correctly about something from the books about Mab being the only one who didn't fear Idath or not?

One of the faery books I'm reading right now has just introduced a "death-fey" character. He is terrifying to all the other fae because his power of death cannot be restrained by anyone. He does whatever he pleases.

[sleepyqueenie]

Mab, Idath, Lady of the Lake, etc. are immortal beings, they presumably can't be killed by mortal means Yet their entire existence is dependant on mortals. Quite ironic.
but can they hurt or kill each other with magic? I would say no, except if one of them is already weakened. The elements should be in balance = have equal powers.

It seems like she might be invulnerable as an immortal because she mocks Merlin and the others even when in an extremely weakened state, "What are you going to do? Use your puny swords and axes on me?" Invulnerability sounds very plausible. I love that line!
It could just have been arrogance though. I would go for the gods can only be wounded in extreme circumstances theory.

Mab can't see the future Isn't the ‘Sometimes we can look into the future. This is you as you will be’ scene in the book then? I find it rather strange: Old Merlin talking to his younger self, ignoring Mab. Shouldn’t he be furious at her for actions still to come?

haha! that was a great story! Thanks

I wish we could have seen more Idath in the books. We have so little to go on concerning his character and relationship with Mab. That is sad. Sounds like Idath has an even smaller role than I suspected. ‘My’ Idath is from fanfics, as I can’t find the books. he doesn't seem to act like he still fancies her either. How can he not?

I would prefer Mab dominance. But Idath making 'her feel love and vulnerability' sounds sweet as well! Ok, both Mab and Idath dominance could work for me. To be honest just about anything goes as long as Mab’s happy ;D

One of the faery books I'm reading right now has just introduced a "death-fey" character. He is terrifying to all the other fae because his power of death cannot be restrained by anyone. He does whatever he pleases. Sounds like a nice guy. Which book?

[himiko]

Sometimes we can see into the future.. Indeed, that is in the book and film o_0 Perhaps there's an author mixup, as I don't see why Mab would need to use the Cauldron of Rebirth, if she can see into the future. Mind you, perhaps her power to do so is weaker, or more vague? She sees what Merlin will look like when he's older, but doesn't know that he ends up betraying her, after all, so her "future-vision" can't be that specific.

... doesn't seem to still fancy her... Yeah, I think this is true... I don't know, eternity is a long time to be lovers throughout, I choose to think they had more of an on-off thing going on, and did their separate thing in between. Either that, or the fact that Mab has apparently changed so much before the film started means that Idath's distanced himself from her?

Who would dominate? I imagine it would vary, depending on the mood both of them were in, TBH I don't see either of them melting at a look, but I imagine each likes to have their turn at being in control

[Arwen17]

Which book?
Its the final book of the Wicked Lovely series by Melissa Marr. One of the most awesome faery series I've ever read.

This is where the title comes from:
"And he smiled at her, truly smiled, wicked and lovely and so tempting that the stories of faery kidnapping came crashing into her mind. Kidnapping? Following by choice is more like it. She all but collapsed into her chair. He’s a faery. Faeries are bad . . . "

To me that quote sounds a lot like Mab and perhaps her sex life too lol


Who would dominate? I imagine it would vary, depending on the mood both of them were in, TBH I don't see either of them melting at a look, but I imagine each likes to have their turn at being in control

yummy



I would go for the gods can only be wounded in extreme circumstances theory.
I tend to go with this theory because its a lot easier to write fanfic if its true.


Mab can't see the future Isn't the ‘Sometimes we can look into the future. This is you as you will be’ scene in the book then? I find it rather strange: Old Merlin talking to his younger self, ignoring Mab. Shouldn’t he be furious at her for actions still to come?


This was talked about in the books. Older merlin was waiting for the day it would happen because he remembered it happening when he was young. He was trying to decide what the best thing was he could say to his younger self because he would only have a few moments to do so. Which makes no sense because he should remember what his older self said when he was younger right? *ouch that's a headache.*

[sleepyqueenie]

The Wicked Lovely series by Melissa Marr. One of the most awesome faery series I've ever read. Adding to my ever growing to-read list.

Nice excerpt!
"He’s a faery. Faeries are bad . . . " I once read a quote/poem by Terry Pratchett about this. (so going off-topic)

“Elves are wonderful. They provoke wonder.
Elves are marvellous. They cause marvels.
Elves are fantastic. They create fantasies.
Elves are glamorous. They project glamour.
Elves are enchanting. They weave enchantment.
Elves are terrific. They beget terror.
The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.
No one ever said elves are nice.
Elves are bad.”

All raise hands who wouldn't mind being 'kidnapped' by Mab

I imagine each likes to have their turn at being in control.

yummy lol I agree.


Older merlin was waiting for the day it would happen because he remembered it happening when he was young. He was trying to decide what the best thing was he could say to his younger self because he would only have a few moments to do so. Which makes no sense because he should remember what his older self said when he was younger right? *ouch that's a headache.* Yes! And why would he give it that much thought? He already knows he won't follow the advice he gives to his younger self. The 'don't start giving advice'- advice.

[Arwen17]

ha! I've seen that poem before when reading TV Tropes!
TVtropes is a hilarious website that points out all the tropes or cliches in stories. It goes to show that no story is truly original and it is impossible to write any story without a trope in it.

Here's some of the faery tropes:

The Fair Folk
This one has the poem

Our Elves are Better

Can't Argue With Elves This one is my favorite! XD *cough* Can't Argue with Mab! *cough*
"Elves are better than you. They are taller, thinner, prettier, more graceful, better-read, more environmentally-conscious ("In Harmony With Nature" is the usual phrasing), more socially progressive, less aggressive or confrontational (while still being fearsome warriors), and better craftspeople, too.
Oh, and they're magic.
In fact, the only quality elves seem to be lacking is humility. Even when an author tries to specify that these elves are perfect, wonderful.. the elves still can't resist lecturing humans on their errant ways. "


Tropes are Tools


Oh and there is a specific Merlin page for all the tropes in Merlin!
Merlin- 1998




Yes! And why would he give it that much thought? He already knows he won't follow the advice he gives to his younger self. The 'don't start giving advice'- advice.
And here's another twist. He just gave himself advice about not giving advice and yet he was giving advice at the same time he wanted to impress upon his younger self not to do it.

[sleepyqueenie]

Hey! That's where I first read it ;D

I had almost forgotten how fun that website is!
Yes the faerie parts have Mab written all over it .

specific Merlin page for all the tropes in Merlin! Perfect!! I will read that right away

He just gave himself advice about not giving advice and yet he was giving advice at the same time he wanted to impress upon his younger self not to do it. Indeed! The man is a living contradiction!

[NyssaSaraLee]

All raise hands who wouldn't mind being 'kidnapped' by Mab
* hand shoots up *
OMM! OMM! Me Me Me Me!! PICK ME!!!

[elspeththequeen]

*hand shoots up too rapidly jumping up and down*
Oooh! Oooh! Me too! Me too!

[msshayxpear]

*waves her hand in the air like Hermione Granger when asked a question by a teacher* XD

[sleepyqueenie]

Opinions on Lady/Idath?

[NyssaSaraLee]

* giggles from the corner*

[sleepyqueenie]

*joins giggling* dark!Idath, barbie!Idath

translation: Nyssa and I can see this work