Post by himiko on Oct 1, 2011 3:00:58 GMT
OK, so this is in response to Arwen's quote from the Nimue thread:
What's strange is I think I understand Mab as a character better than Merlin. He's sort of an enigma to me. I just can't get a grasp of what he really thinks about people and the world. He loves Nimue and hates Mab. But as for the others...he's so stoic or something. Maybe I understand Mab better because we've analyzed her more or Miranda plays her with more depth or something.
This kinda goes along with the way Merlin seems to have no religion or not much opinion beyond "destroy mab".
I think appearances are probably important to a certain extent- note how Mab's "default" appearance (since she can change her appearance to mimic that of others, apparently has animal shapes, and can just be a voice- see that scene in the estuary with Merlin yelling at the sky... though I think that in the shooting script the clouds were supposed to take on the image of Mab, or something. Might be imagining it, I don't have it with me) is a very pretty woman indeed. But perhaps they, or some of them, consider it less important in their partners?
I know what you mean. Merlin's a bit of an enigma- I think its elaborated on better in the books, that he goes from hating Mab and wanting to destroy her, to actively working against her, to genuinely wanting to do right by Britain, but its not really so well addressed in the film. I mean, its kind of implied- when Merlin goes to Uther, he does it for revenge on Vortigern and Mab, not because of Uther's own virtues (admittedly, he says that Uther might make a fair to decent king, but he's not done a lot of research, and all he really has to compare him to is Vortigern. Who is, let's be honest, probably not a shining example of kingly virtue, since his guiding principles seem to be 1) Kill lots of people, 2) Beget heirs, 3) Build castles, and, of course, 4) If 2) and 3) prove unsuccessful, attempt the liberal application of principle 1) until they do). After he sees Uther make a monumental fuck up of ruling, he takes Arthur under his wing to raise him as a genuinely decent king.
Also, by the end of the second half, Merlin willingly goes to Nimue, knowing that it is a kingdom created by Mab, and knowing that he is being sent there, in part, by her- had this occured in the first half, I imagine he would have refused purely on the basis of it being Mab. In the books, of course, we see him explicitly state that by the time Mordred is an adult, before he comes to Camelot, Merlin no longer hates Mab, he pities her, and fears for Britain, but that's not really there in the film. Given that he is the protagonist, I feel that it would have helped to see him muse over his own motivations a little more. As it is, he kind of takes a back seat in part 2, up until near the end, for the whole Camelot saga.
But yeah, in a nutshell, I'd say that Ambrosia's death and revelation of his mother's death lead him to swear revenge at Mab (OK, that's obvious). His quest for revenge against Mab initially leads him to simply ignore her, which leads him to be drawn into the war for the throne, which leads to more active wish for revenge, which leads him further into politics, and when he has more experience, and sees the damage Constant, Vortigern and Uther have done/ are doing, he becomes more determined to help the country. Because he is sworn against Mab, he still believes that acting in the country's best interests means directly opposing hers, and by the time he gets past this (in the book scene where he tries to make peace), it is too late for the events which have already been set in motion.
Saying that, a lot of this is conjecture, or stuff I've picked up from the book, the movie makes it quite easy to interpret everything as "Merlin want to crush Mab", but, you know, that's just not as fun
What's strange is I think I understand Mab as a character better than Merlin. He's sort of an enigma to me. I just can't get a grasp of what he really thinks about people and the world. He loves Nimue and hates Mab. But as for the others...he's so stoic or something. Maybe I understand Mab better because we've analyzed her more or Miranda plays her with more depth or something.
This kinda goes along with the way Merlin seems to have no religion or not much opinion beyond "destroy mab".
I think appearances are probably important to a certain extent- note how Mab's "default" appearance (since she can change her appearance to mimic that of others, apparently has animal shapes, and can just be a voice- see that scene in the estuary with Merlin yelling at the sky... though I think that in the shooting script the clouds were supposed to take on the image of Mab, or something. Might be imagining it, I don't have it with me) is a very pretty woman indeed. But perhaps they, or some of them, consider it less important in their partners?
I know what you mean. Merlin's a bit of an enigma- I think its elaborated on better in the books, that he goes from hating Mab and wanting to destroy her, to actively working against her, to genuinely wanting to do right by Britain, but its not really so well addressed in the film. I mean, its kind of implied- when Merlin goes to Uther, he does it for revenge on Vortigern and Mab, not because of Uther's own virtues (admittedly, he says that Uther might make a fair to decent king, but he's not done a lot of research, and all he really has to compare him to is Vortigern. Who is, let's be honest, probably not a shining example of kingly virtue, since his guiding principles seem to be 1) Kill lots of people, 2) Beget heirs, 3) Build castles, and, of course, 4) If 2) and 3) prove unsuccessful, attempt the liberal application of principle 1) until they do). After he sees Uther make a monumental fuck up of ruling, he takes Arthur under his wing to raise him as a genuinely decent king.
Also, by the end of the second half, Merlin willingly goes to Nimue, knowing that it is a kingdom created by Mab, and knowing that he is being sent there, in part, by her- had this occured in the first half, I imagine he would have refused purely on the basis of it being Mab. In the books, of course, we see him explicitly state that by the time Mordred is an adult, before he comes to Camelot, Merlin no longer hates Mab, he pities her, and fears for Britain, but that's not really there in the film. Given that he is the protagonist, I feel that it would have helped to see him muse over his own motivations a little more. As it is, he kind of takes a back seat in part 2, up until near the end, for the whole Camelot saga.
But yeah, in a nutshell, I'd say that Ambrosia's death and revelation of his mother's death lead him to swear revenge at Mab (OK, that's obvious). His quest for revenge against Mab initially leads him to simply ignore her, which leads him to be drawn into the war for the throne, which leads to more active wish for revenge, which leads him further into politics, and when he has more experience, and sees the damage Constant, Vortigern and Uther have done/ are doing, he becomes more determined to help the country. Because he is sworn against Mab, he still believes that acting in the country's best interests means directly opposing hers, and by the time he gets past this (in the book scene where he tries to make peace), it is too late for the events which have already been set in motion.
Saying that, a lot of this is conjecture, or stuff I've picked up from the book, the movie makes it quite easy to interpret everything as "Merlin want to crush Mab", but, you know, that's just not as fun
hehe gods you think your own family is screwed up then you think of Mab, Merlin and Puddles.
that she is actually helping the country by helping Merlin keep her sister from stopping change 
I think in general if you want to truly suss out Merlin you work out Mab and Ambrosia then you'll have a win.