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Post by himiko on Apr 6, 2017 19:59:41 GMT
Thought I'd create a thread for the below question from morganlefey: Who are some of your top favorite characters from different forms of media? Just as all media has their main character, their hero, so too must it have forces working against them - whether they're out to do evil, make some trouble, or reluctantly work together while drowning the hero in snark. So, who are your favourite morally ambiguous or straight up villainous characters? A few of mine below (I've excluded Merlin characters, but otherwise Mab - and probably a few others- would obviously be on here  ) Catherine de Medici - Reign (TV Series), played by Megan Follows - no idea how true to life this is as a portrayal of the real historical Queen of France, but she's great fun to watch, and obviously the person you'd go to if you ever needed to hide a body or plot a murder. Q - Star Trek: TNG, DS9 and VOY (TV Series), played by John de Lancie - my boyfriend introduced me to Star Trek, and thus to Q - the name of both the alien himself and for his species as a whole. He has the powers (and potentially the omniscience?) of a god, and the personality of a bored and somewhat malicious child. Possessed of both a contempt for and fascination with humans, he appears periodically throughout TNG, and in a few scattered episodes of DS9 and VOY, occasionally as an antagonist, sometimes as a sort-of-ally, and sometimes as a potentially lethal distraction. Pretty sure he had a thing for Picard (Patrick Stewart's character). Gul Dukat - Star Trek DS9 (TV Series), played by Mark Alaimo - Haven't actually finished DS9 yet, and I'm somewhat reluctant to list Dukat - he is a truly terrible person in many, many ways. But I find him a love to hate villain - his interplays with the other characters are always quite fun to watch, particularly with main characters Sisko and Kira, and fellow terrible, terrible person and abiding enemy, Garak. Regina/ The Evil Queen and Rumplestiltskin - Once Upon a Time (TV Series), played by Lana Parilla and Robert Carlyle - Much as I am growing irate with this show on many levels - they seem to have run out of ideas for what to do with their characters, compulsory heterosexuality is ruining it, etc etc. - I do still enjoy watching these two prance around being scene-chewingly villainous. I also quite enjoy Regina's newly redeemed characterisation, though I'm not as much of a fan of Gold - the writers seem to like him as a villain too much to allow him to stay "redeemed" for long, but they won't kill him off or end his "True Love" relationship for good, so he just bounces between evil/wants to redeem/redeemed/sliding back to evil as needed for the arc. Thankfully, Robert Carlyle is a reliably fine actor, so there's that. Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish, Lord Varys, Olenna "Queen of Thorns" Tyrell - A Song of Ice and Fire (books), Game of Thrones (TV Series), played by Aidan Gillen, Conleth Hill and Diana Rigg, respectively - So, I've been "off" Game of Thrones recently - there's being a gritty, dark show in tone, and there's "We must stick rape, murder and naked ladies into literally every episode", which is what it's been sort of veering towards lately (plus some truly cringey dialogue), but I will still Youtube any given scene of one or more of these three snarking and plotting. Assorted Disney Villains - the quality of their storylines may be variable, but they do get all the best songs There are almost certainly many more that I am missing, but there's a few to start... |
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Apr 8, 2017 9:59:02 GMT
Those are an excellent few.  I've heard that Reign (especially Catherine) is very good but haven't watched it yet. Yaaaaay for Disney villains! Lately I have been very fangirly towards: Dr Bedelia Du Maurier from Hannibal, she is a morally ambiguous mystery of a character and I love her to bits. and The Duchess Diane de Tremontaine from Tremontaine who is the main character + antihero in this prequel series to Ellen Kushner's novel Swordspoint. The series focuses on her rise to power and all she does to pretty much become the queen of a city where women are not supposed to have any political say. Varying from petty pleasures she takes to serious measures. All this is presented in a fantastic whirl of lace, grace and puns. |
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Post by himiko on Apr 22, 2017 18:05:06 GMT
I would definitely recommend checking Reign out- it's a fun show, though the plots can get a little far fetched particularly in Season 1 (there's a cannibalistic cult living in the woods, there's a love triangle with a fictional illegitimate son, etc.). I think I've seen some of your social media posts about those two characters - I haven't read any of Ellen Kushner's work, but I am slowly working my way through Hannibal Series 1 with my brother - enjoying it so far, though because I only see him every couple of months it's quite a drawn out viewing experience ). I've only seen a little bit of Bedelia so far, but I am always on board for Gillian Anderson. A few more character (I really should go and look out some pictures...) Petra - Jane the Virgin - TV Series - I really need to crack on watching Series 2 and 3 of this show... Dragon AgeSo, I know that I've rambled about it -at length- in other threads, and that I said that my antagonist/anti hero type doesn't really extend to video games, but... yeah, all of these people probably count as anti heroes. Leliana - She's a sweet, kind, pious former priestess who likes shoes, pretty dresses and righteous defeat of the Blight. Also she is a former spy and assassin who was extremely good at her job. By the time you see her again in the games, she is working for the Chantry once again, but it is implied that as the "Left Hand of the Divine" that she is working as a spy and assasin rather than a simple priestess. This is pretty much confirmed in the third entry where she acts as your spymaster and will happily have people assassinated for the greater good, as she sees it. I'd have difficulty labelling her as a villain or an antagonist - barring certain specific decisions, she always works alongside the player character, whether as friend, lover or reluctant ally, and her motives (saving the world, reforming the Chantry to make it more equal for all races and overhaul the system of mage oppression) are noble, but her tendency to rely on brutal methods would probably put her in the anti hero camp. Morrigan - Sarcastic witch with 0 patience for people in general. She's also ruthless, though in a different way to Leliana- Morrigan is quite indifferent to the suffering she sees going on around her, and will usually disapprove if you stop to help out others along the way - she's got her own goals, and her own ideas of what is best for the world that generally involves the rediscovery of lost knowledge and magic. She can open up and become a friend to your characters in the 1st and 3rd games, but she can also abandon you if you aren't willing to go along with her plans. Loghain - Loghain is a veteran of a war to overthrow the occupying forces of his home country (who also killed his family, including his dog), which seems to have left him with a severe case of paranoia and fear that allowing that country a foothold in Fereldan will result in another invasion. To which end, he does some dark stuff, including leaving his king (and son-in-law) to die on the battlefield, usurp a lot of his daughter's power and clamp down on any opposition, including the Grey Wardens who were present at the battle. By the time you can recruit him, pretty much everyone in your party hates him to varying levels, and he responds in kind. |
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Apr 27, 2017 9:24:48 GMT
I am fine with farfetched possibly cannibalistic plots. :-)
To be honest Bedelia is not all that much in the series. Though she is the most interesting character, to me. All her s1 scenes are online in a 10 minute video. She is wonderful at the very start of s2 and there is one very artful episode Antipasto of s3 that is her shining moment (it can be watched stand alone).
You play Dragon Age! How cool, I've heard good things about it. Wow those characters sound really suitable to join Mab's ranks and help her WIN.
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Post by himiko on Jun 3, 2017 0:15:43 GMT
Reign's quite odd in a few ways - the first season is just straight up out and out silliness (cannibal cult in the woods, etc.) with sort of the barest nods to actual events. Seasons 2 onwards seem to start trying to be more serious period drama - I mean they're still hugely historically inaccurate but they seem to try to be a bit more sensible with the plots, and then suddenly out of nowhere you have things like Nostradamus cropping up with another prophecy, or Catherine deciding to cast a spell on her son, and it's all just a bit mad XD
I do really like Dragon Age, it's one of my favourite video game series. I like the way your decisions influence the story going forward, to an extent, and I enjoy most of the characters. As for how helpful they would be for Mab... now you've got me thinking XD I'll try and pop an analysis over in the "Mab needs a Champion" thread...
Having now finished Deep Space Nine, I'd probably stick Weyoun on the list as well - he reminds me a LOT of Frik in how he interacts with the Founders/ Changelings (they genetically engineered his species, and therefore he sees them as gods, and is massively obsequious and toadying around them), though he does have the advantage of never transforming into a racist Asian stereotype for no goddamn reason... He does have that same ingratiating personality with most of the people he meets, though Weyoun's pleasant mannerisms disappear somewhat when working with those he considers his subordinates. And unlike Frik, he stays loyal to the Founders right up until the end. It doesn't end too well for him, mind...
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Post by Libitine on Jun 12, 2017 20:50:19 GMT
The first favorite character I ever had in a movie (at the age of three) was Maleficent. Before I'm asked... I did not like the live action film Disney put out at all. I've heard there is to be a sequel though, so perhaps one of those rare instances of sequel triumphing over original will occur and it will be to my liking!
Other than her... I really enjoy musicals, so Mrs Lovett (Sweeney Todd), Ms Hannigan (Annie), and Luisa (Nine) are other favorites.
I briefly watched Game of Thrones, and liked Cersei and Tyrion as well as Varys (I saw Conleth Hill in London in Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? and was further impressed with his acting abilities).
Not sure all of these are proper "villains, antagonists, and anti-heroes" but I thought I'd hop in and participate!
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Post by maellowyn on Jun 21, 2017 20:03:49 GMT
yeah Conleth in Who's afraid of Virginia Woolf was really impressive - glad my cinema did broadcast this 😆
so but for loveable anti-heroes... beside Mab, Elspeth or VanTassel-
Movies:
Loki
Snape
Malfoy
Grima
Snow Queen
Thranduil
Dracula (Gary Oldman)
Nuada (Hellboy)
Jareth the Gobkin King
TV:
Regina
Spike/Drusila
Alex Kryceck
Blaine (IZombie)
Dr. House
Raimond Reddigton (Blacklist)
Moriarty/ Mycroft (Sherlock)
... anf I could go on for hours.
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Jul 7, 2017 10:02:46 GMT
I have finally found a way to watch some Reign. Catherine is the best thing about it for me.  And the dresses. It is also nice to see Darken Rahl and Susan Pevensee again. (I can't remember the actors' names at the moment.) |
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Post by himiko on Jul 18, 2017 20:34:56 GMT
I have finally found a way to watch some Reign. Catherine is the best thing about it for me. And the dresses. It is also nice to see Darken Rahl and Susan Pevensee again. (I can't remember the actors' names at the moment.) Good times! Ah, I didn't realise that Narcisse was in "Legend of the Seeker" - I hated the first book with a fiery burning passion, never got round to watching the TV series (or indeed reading the rest of the books... but I don't think I'm missing much on that score from what I've grasped) - I heard that the series is somewhat less objectionable than the book though, maybe I should give it a look... @morganlefey - Good choices, yay for Frank-N-Furter and Jareth! Dirk Gently is another show that I've been meaning to get around to - it's based on the Douglas Adams books, I believe, and I loved his "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" books (we will not speak of the film...) Yeah, sorry, I was being a bit tongue in cheek with my Frik comment. It is a horrible scene but I think it's more a reflection of the tastelessness of the writers/producers etc. involved, rather than an intentional flaw in Frik's character. Either that or some really bad writing: "BTW, Frik's a massive racist! This will never be relevant to the plot and we will never speak of it again." Also, YAY again for another DS9 viewer! I enjoyed Garak, though I could never understand why some of the main characters persisted in trusting him... getting Littlefinger "I did warn you not to trust me..." flashbacks here... I also wasn't a big fan of his relationship with Ziyal. It always seemed a bit uncomfortable and forced, like they needed to give Garak a girlfiend to stick a giant "No Homo!" sign on his and Bashir's interactions. But he's certainly enjoyable to watch. I like Bashir too, but Kira is my undisputed favourite XD The way that the Founders genetically engineered the Vorta and the Jem'Hadar was one of their most sinister actions, I think. The fact that they have made them so dependent upon the Founders by viewing them as gods, by making the JH dependent upon Ketracell White - no idea if I spelled that correctly - by building in essentially a "suicide button" in case any go rogue, by cloning them and treating them as disposable, even down to the fact that the Vorta could only truly taste and enjoy a hugely narrow range of foods... |
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Jul 24, 2017 6:12:54 GMT
Yes Narcisse is the main baddie in Legend of the Seeker. (Don't worry seriesDarkenRahl is different from bookDarkenRahl, everyone is different from err themselves.) The series is amusing and does not really tie into the book series. I read the books completely put of order. I really dislike the first one too. |
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Post by himiko on Jul 30, 2017 22:50:53 GMT
The sad thing is, DS9 is the "best" Star Trek for same sex relationships by some considerable distance. Jadzia Dax seems to be bisexual - she falls back in love with her wife from a previous host, they kiss and declare feelings for one another but the other woman chooses to leave and go back to Trill because of the taboo against joined Trill reassociating with lovers from past hosts. Unfortunately, that's pretty much the limit of her same sex attraction (every other love interest that she has - shown or mentioned - is male, and mentions of romances from her past lives all seem to be strictly hetero) and it's all contained within one episode of the series. Even that relationship is framed a little oddly - whilst the two women are clearly shown as having feelings for each other, and being attracted to each other, their relationship did originate as a heterosexual marriage between two of their previous hosts. But that's still one episode more than any of the other series had, as far as I know. I've read a couple of interviews, and it sounded like the production team were the main cause of this - Gene Roddenberry apparently had plans to include a gay or lesbian character in TNG but retired from the production and died before this could come to fruition. Several of the actors were apparently pressuring for gay characters to be included throughout the series. I believe Whoopi Goldberg actually changed one of her lines in TNG to be more inclusive - it originally referred to "When a man and woman fall in love" and she changed it to "When two people fall in love" because she thought it was absurd in this utopian future that characters would still treat same sex relationships as something shameful or hidden. But the production seemed to shoot down any attempts to include same sex relationships, even down to having same sex couples hold hands in the background of scenes. I think Andrew Robinson (Garak) was actually asked to "tone down" his performance after he played his early scenes with Bashir as openly flirty (too late to close the fanfic floodgates of course). It's yet another thing that makes me think that Trek was/is as good as it is IN SPITE of it's production team XD
Sounds like things are improving though - the reboot films set in a different time line have reimagined Sulu as gay (though I think his husband is only briefly mentioned/seen) and the upcoming Discovery series (which will be set in the Prime Timeline) will have at least one gay character in the main cast.
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Post by himiko on Jan 28, 2018 20:01:34 GMT
Yeah, I never really understood why no-one mentioned the taboo when it came to Worf and Ezri... I can only assume that the in-universe explanation was that the taboo is against two joined Trill reuniting, since Worf is neither joined nor a Trill, there's less of an issue around their re-coupling. At some point, Worf is inevitably going to die, or have to move away in the course of his duties, there isn't an option for them to keep coming back together in every lifetime. I think the meta explanation is probably just because they wanted to explore Worf's struggles with having someone who both was and wasn't his wife around for story reasons, and didn't want to have to keep having the other characters keep addressing the taboo, so they handwaved it.
I really didn't like that they had Bashir and Ezri get together in the end. Bashir actually got on my nerves quite a lot in the early seasons with his constant flirting with Jadzia, despite her being not interested. I liked that they addressed that she enjoys flirting but that she wasn't interested in an actual relationship with him, and I really liked that it actually STUCK and that she went off and fell in love with someone else. So often in media you have a couple getting together where the woman has shown no prior interest - usually the people the woman actually want to be with are shown as being wildly unsuitable, and she realises that she SHOULD have been in love with this guy all along, or they just act like she has been and just didn't want to admit it. It's part of why I've never been able to get that into Odo and Kira, even though they did at least try to show that in Kira's case it was a case of friendship turning to love over time, and she did have meaningful relationships beforehand. Jadzia wasn't into Julian, and when they had Ezri declare that actually Jadzia HAD been into Julian, and she (Ezri) still was, it just felt like it was rewarding Bashir, because heaven forfend that a sympathetic male character not get the romance that he wanted in the first place... But yeah, it may also have the no-homo elements there, too.
Yeah, the mirror universe is problematic on so many levels. It's like the "promiscuous bisexual" trope, the "female homosexuality is sexy!" and of course the "90% of your LGBT+ representation is in the universe where EVERYONE IS AN EVIL BAG OF DICKS!" trope (which I feel is maybe specific to Star Trek...). I love the mirror universe as a concept, it's interesting to see the anti-Federation, there's a lot of fun, campy evil stuff (though not quite as enjoyable as the "Bride of Chaotica" episode of Voyager), but yeah, having the Intendant basically be the ONLY recurring character that is consistently shown as not straight is troubling. Jonathan Frakes (Riker) was talking about Discovery recently (he directed some of the episodes), and he mentioned that in the TNG episode when he falls in love with the androgynous alien from the society with no genders, that he believed the role should have been played by a man, but the network wasn't willing to "go there".
But yeah, they do seem to be somewhat improving in this area, based on Discovery. We'll see how that goes... I haven't actually seen the JJ Abrams Trek films myself either, they've never really appealed to me.
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Post by Mabforever on Jan 28, 2018 23:35:54 GMT
So the theme is bad guys, ok lets see. Catherine de Medici - Reign Melisandre/Olenna Tyrell/Cersei - Game of Thrones Drusilla - Buffy/Angel West/Glinda - Emerald City (now thats tricky as i dont know if they are considered bad, maybe more disagreeable) Ferguson - Wentworth Prison Silver Banshee, Live Wire, Cat Grant - Supergirl Guy of Gisborne - Robin Hood Constance/Fiona/Elsa - American Horror Story Victoria Grayson - Revenge Loki/Hela - Thor Jareth - Labyrinth Severus Snape/Rita Skeeter - Harry Potter Jadis - The Chronicles of Narnia Miss Hardbroom - The Worst Witch Cruella - Once Upon A Time Cheryl Blossom - Riverdale Brianna - Frankie and Grace (again not a hundred percent if she counts in this category but she is referred to as the bad daughter ) Catherine Pierce - Vampire Diaries Alexandra Reid - Defenders Helena/Rachel - Orphan Black Norma - Bates Motel Mercy/Tituba - Salem Artemisia - 300 Lucretia/Illithyia/Gaia - Spartacus White Widow Mercedes - Wynonna Earp I think my list mostly meets the requirements thats all I can really think of at the moment |
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Post by sleepyqueenie on Aug 4, 2019 11:21:27 GMT
Okay, so this is very silly and quite unrelated, but I watched an old She-Ra episode and it gave me the most hilarious 1998 Merlin flashes. Here is the link if you feel like some good giggling. youtu.be/twWcTXTDo5c |
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Post by Arwen17 on Aug 5, 2019 3:10:32 GMT
Okay, so this is very silly and quite unrelated, but I watched an old She-Ra episode and it gave me the most hilarious 1998 Merlin flashes. Here is the link if you feel like some good giggling. youtu.be/twWcTXTDo5clol thank you for posting this! I have no memory of this show. They probably didn't re-air it in the 90s, even though a lot of 80s cartoons did get re-aired during the 90s. It reminds me of some strange combination of Rainbow Brite (because of the horse) www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pp74T9b4Z40 and Thundercats www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcGNqrAtsgg lol. Both shows I watched religiously as a little kid in the 90s. There some kind of horrible-looking reboot: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/She-Ra_and_the_Princesses_of_PowerReminds me of the reboot of My Little Pony. |
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- but in basically everything else, yeah...
And the dresses. It is also nice to see Darken Rahl and Susan Pevensee again. (I can't remember the actors' names at the moment.)
