If Mordred had won/survived the battle with Arthur

[himiko]

Merlin: *desperately attempts to stop twitching eye* No, no, it's fine, honest....

[rusalka]

If only Merlin had looked far enough forwards into the future to see what would happen after hundreds of years of pushed Christianity/Catholicism, and prejudice... (no offence to any Christians, etc, obviously!)... IRL, nowadays, so many people are actually going back into all the 'Old religions' and 'Old ways'.

But, back on topic, I don't think it would have been difficult for Mordred to convert the majority of the country to being part of Queen Mab's religion.. but it would have been difficult to maintain, especially with a king like that, as it was a religion which has always been generally passive and accepting, and was usually rather peaceful with other religions, until Queen Mab felt desperate that everyone was converting to Christianity - and so lashed out to try and do different, which she did as best she could with Merlin to start.. as a Goddess-type of nature, it was never really her job to save anyone from dying, even his mother - nature has always given with one hand and taken with the other.
The Tudors and other eras etc chopped and changed the countrys religion constantly from different versions of Christianity with fear, and heretics being tortured and burned, etc... and that may have been more Mordred's line of thought, he didn't seem to be taught the Old Ways as much as being told to hate Arthur and do whatever Mab said.. as someone has already said, he was pretty much trained from birth to kill and once it was done he'd probably be feeling more than a little lost.

I always did wonder, though, why he never felt much for his mother's death.

[himiko]

I think you're pretty much right, here. The country might, on the face of it, have converted back to the Old Ways out of fear of Mordred, but there's going to be a lot of "secret Christians", and a lot of people will be put off the Old Ways once they associate them with Mordred.

Essentially, as was discussed in the thread before, Mab's not so good at post-battle strategy. Merlin probably represents her attempt to create a champion for the Old Ways who would lead the people back to her and be loved by them. With Vortigern, she assumes that her enemy's enemy is her friend (hello, mother-son similarities) only to realise that the Old Ways suffer under him as much as Christianity, and with Mordred, she has a champion that is massively loyal to her, but in no way suited for long term rule.

I mean, I know Mordred has a shorter life expectancy than most men, it's possible Mab thought he couldn't do too much damage before he died, and passed the crown on to someone else, but at the same time, there's got to be a lot of years still left in him yet.

RE: Morgan

I posted about this once long ago, I think, but basically I believe that the "family" at Tintagel had essentially broken down into Mab and Mordred/ Frik and Morgan by the time Mordred reached adulthood.

Morgan, who has been alone and ugly for most of her life, is drawn to Frik, who makes her beautiful and showers her with gifts and attention. He, in turn, is drawn to her for probably quite similar reasons- he enjoys being appreciated. Mab has no real interest in Morgan once she's produced baby Mordred, since Mordred is the one with a claim to the throne that she needs, and Mordred adores his auntie because she spoils him and pays attention to him, etc.

For Mab and Frik, we already know that their relationship is a master/ servant one, and not particularly warm, at that. Morgan and Mordred seem a lot closer when Mordred is younger, but by the time Mordred is an adult, the novelisation describes their relationship as "she sniped at him, and he criticised her..", which doesn't sound as though they get on especially well. I suspect once Mordred got to the "bratty teenage stage", Morgan was probably quite happy to leave him to Mab to deal with I think Morgan obviously loved her son, judging by the last scene, but I don't think he loved her back, and I suspect both of them are at fault for not really making much effort to be a family, because it was easier for them to attach themselves to Mab or Frik. The family basically broke down massively.

[Mabforever]

The family did break down though I loved them dearly they were an excellent little baddy camp as Helena said, it was mistake on Mab's part....lets say for her to not also warn Morgan the stairs were slippery. Granted killing Morgan wouldnt have saved Mordred but it would have meant Frik and Morgan would still be on her side. She knew Mordred was her last chance I guess and figured well he is going to win I wont need those two any more.

Not killing Morgan would perhaps have kept her and Frik loyal to Mab, also you never even know how Morgan would have reacted to Mordred's death. And idea playing in my head was her going with Mab and Frik to Camelot then when the time came her actually trying to kill Merlin who I dont think would have retaliated. So say she stabs him when he's blocking an attack from Mab he cant tell the others to forget Mab so he dies buying Mab a little more time at least.

[himiko]

You make some good points...

I don't know, I think that for a start we have to remember that Mab is not so good with the understanding of humans, or the patience. I think that she assumed that Mordred would win, or at least had high hopes for it, but also didn't see the point in keeping Morgan along for the ride- she doesn't need her anymore, and honestly, Morgan seems to pay more attention to Frik than the Old Ways in general, I don't think Mab cared about losing a follower.

I think that perhaps she might have been a little peeved at Frik's desertion- he has, after all been useful in the past- but she never seems to like him very much, and it's more in a sense of "Oh, like that, is it? Fine then!" rather than genuine distress.

I don't think Morgan and Frik would have remained "part of the family" either way,

SPOILERS FOR BOOK 3

.. Frik wanted to leave Mab's service and stay at Tintagel with Morgan, he suspected Mab wouldn't care, and honestly, he was probably right. I think he might have tried to distract Morgan so that she wouldn't notice their departure, too.

END SPOILERS

I guess it's possible that had she gone to Camelot, she might have tried to revenge herself on Merlin for taking more of her family, but I don't think Merlin would have let her stab him, unless he was severely distracted. I think he would have felt bad, and I think he would have tried to disarm her without harming her, but not just let him die. Still, it's all just conjecture, so it's entirely possible.

I do enjoy their "Tintagel family" unit, but honestly, we see it breaking down every time we see them-

1) With Baby Mordred, quite lighthearted, everyone laughing

2) Much quieter scene, with much more tension (Mordred shooting the arrows, the dialogue between Mordred and Frik/ Morgan is very strained and pissy), and we see the divide between Mab/Mordred and Frik/Morgan as they sit at opposite ends of the very long table, and basically snipe at each other. Lighting is also darker, here.

3) Once again, darker lighting The camera is very close up on Mab and Mordred, and their exchange is whispered and quite conspiratorial. We then see Morgan and Frik, in the background, doing something else entirely, and pretty much absorbed in their own activity until Frik speaks, where they have a pretty unpleasant exchange.

4) Breaking the pattern of lighting! It's the first real interaction between Mab and Morgan, and it's probably the first scene since 1) where all four are interacting a bit more with each other- it's sort of the opposite of 1, in a way, the breaking down of the family, the permanent split between Mab and Frik (who, in scene 1 arrived together, finished each others sentences and generally seemed to be getting along better than at pretty much any other point in the film), and the removal of Mordred's affections for his mother.

[sleepyqueenie]

*reads previous comments* *applauds*
I love the Tintagel family scenes!