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Post by himiko on Jun 13, 2007 22:55:29 GMT
Several months ago, I thought about writing a fic on this, and the idea died in my brain, as I couldn't think of a storyline that could come to a natural end. I may do yet (though it's unlikely), and if not, I might make another group fic out of it to accompany Fred (maybe call it Charlie, what do you think?). But I thought it might make for an interesting discussion thread anyway.
I think that what would have happened if Arthur had won would be a pretty safe guess- Merlin and Nimue would have stayed in their cave, the land would have been Christianized, and Mab would probably have faded eventually. But say Mordred had won? What do you think would have happened? Share your theories below *gestures enticingly towards the space below*
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Post by Incapability on Jun 14, 2007 11:49:07 GMT
Interesting. And I shamefully admit that I never really thought it through. First off, there still would have been Merlin to deal with. I don't know whether he would have searched open combat or admitted defeat upon loosing his "champion". If he did go for the confrontation, Mordred probably would have tried or at the very least desperately wanted to kill him in order to become Mab's number one favourite. Let's not forget that he always felt jealous of Merlin because he sensed that Mab never really gave up on him. But would Mab have let him? Part of me thinks no - she would probably use his weakened, broken state to try and coax or force him on her side - not that Merlin would accept. Or she really would order Mordred to kill him because she realised that she did not need him anymore, that there really was no chance of getting him back, and that any further continuance of his life would be nothing but a danger to her plans.
If Merlin would admit defeat and retreat, we could skip the whole "Will she or won't she have him killed" issue. Maybe she would give one last try to get him back or at the very least gloat at him. Then, she and Mordred would go on and try to restore the Old Ways, though it has always escaped me how she intends to do it. I doubt it can be done by displaying sheer force, power and the willingness to kill people. I also doubt that simply presenting a strong leader would suffice at this point. I seriously think Mab has to reconsider her stratgies and start working more selectively. She should not try and convert the whole country at once. She should find those who are unhappy under the Christian rule and build a base from there, keeping those people under her wing and showing others that they are indeed faring better than before.
~
Wow, that was one confusing post.
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Post by himiko on Jun 14, 2007 12:44:34 GMT
Hmm, your points are well made indeed. I certainly agree with you about Mab needing to reconsider her strategies- another point about Mab not really understanding humans properly, methinks.
Also, I think that Mordred might do more harm than good to the Old Ways- he adores Mab, but he still plots behind her back to kill Merlin so that she will love him best, and he expresses his wish to crush the rest of Britain when he has finished with Arthur, simply because he likes to destroy stuff. Would be interesting as to what Mab would do if the realisation became clear.
I have my doubts that Mab would ever have allowed Mordred to kill Merlin. I don't know what she'd do if he killed Merlin anyway, maybe nothing, but I can't see her ordering Merlin's death. After Arthur draws Excalibur from the stone, she claims to have given up on him, and, indeed, she no longer attempts to bring him round to her side, and, although he continues to be a danger to her plans, she never has him killed. Arthur, yes. Merlin, no. And when she sends him to the cave with Nimue in the end, the idea was for him to remain there for the rest of his life- therefore he would still have been unable to have "joined her side", as it were- but she did it anyway. She doesn't try to kill or harm Merlin directly until they actually engage in direct combat at the end, and that's after Mordred's death has made her angry, and she's sworn to make the world pay for his death.
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Post by tosca on Jun 14, 2007 15:54:02 GMT
This is all true - I think Mordred and Mab's relationship worked while there was a battle to be fought, but after that it would be questionable. Mab has spent all Mordred's life priming him for violence and war, and hence, Mordred has developed a love for killing and destroying things - when the time for war is over, is Mordred just supposed to forget about all that childhood indoctrination? I have a feeling that setting him up to be king would be another road to faliure, somehow. The only way that the Old Ways could have been re-introduced would be through stability, and Mordred could never bring that. He was an asset to Mab while he was fighting for her, but when there's no longer a need for fighting, he's bound to get pretty bored.
As for Merlin, I don't think Mab would order his death either. It seems unlikely that he'd roll over and admit defeat, but remember that at this point, he hasn't made any promises to Arthur - he may have become embroiled in the politics of Britain, and claim to have its interests at heart, but still his main motivation is solely revenge against Mab. If, as Incapa said, Mab revised her strategies, and people slowly began to come back to the Old Ways, if (though it seems unlikely) a greater peace was established through their re-emergence, perhaps then Merlin would have to reconsider, as acting against Mab would then be acting against the people's newfound happiness.
For any of that to happen, though, Mab would have to make a supreme effort to understand the ways humans' minds work - fighting for them ultimately eroded her capacity to understand them at all, and it's not like Mordred or the other few humans she interacted with is going to explain this to her. The only person who I can see conceivably convincing her how to strategically win back the people's hearts and restore harmony through the Old Ways is Merlin himself - and there you have a catch 22.
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Post by Mab's Familiar on Jun 14, 2007 17:59:15 GMT
Yes as much as I'd hate to admit Merlin did had the best chance to bring back the Old Ways if he'd only tried. Mordred on the other hand is a warlord just like Vortigern was so I would expect of him to be as cruel to the people as Vortigern was. Though Mordred, of course, would have been only cruel to the Christians. He probably would have used force to make people worship the old ways since he is unfamiliar with any other form of persuasion. Another problem that Mab could have with Mordred (in addition to those that were mentioned before.): If Mordred is indeed obsessed with Mab as much as we were led to believe this obsession may remain with him until the rest of his life. Meaning he might not bring an heir to the throne. Something Mab won't like at all since it means she would have to search for new champions that will cease the throne before the Christians will have the chance to put their hands on it again.
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Post by tosca on Jun 14, 2007 18:44:46 GMT
Heh, that's a good point. I don't think Mordred would be best pleased if Mab tried to subtly hint that he needed to get himself a girlfriend.
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Post by himiko on Jun 14, 2007 20:08:53 GMT
LOL, very true. Mordred getting a girlfriend would be an unlikely scenario. And if he did, it would probably be very much like.
Mordred's girlfriend: Mordred? Mordred: *stares obsessively at Mab* ... MG: Mordred?! Mordred: *continues to stare obsessively at Mab* ... MG: *annoyed* Fine. I'm leaving. Mordred: *distractedly, still staring at Mab* Go away, then....
Not exactly a good step towards the production of an heir. As for what you all said about Mordred, I would agree with it. I daresay it wouldn't be a case of him being as tyrannical as Vortigern- Vortigern wanted to crush peopl to prevent them fighting against him, Mordred would probably just be happy with a permanent killing spree. Either way, he'd be far too violent, and drive away those remaining followers that Mab had. And, with Merlin fighting against her, and Frik disappeared, and Mordred being one of the very few people close to her, it's unlikely that this would be explained to her, unless Merlin tried calling out to her and pointing it out to her again, like he did in the books.
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Post by tosca on Jun 14, 2007 20:56:52 GMT
Yes... sadly, though, the main drift of what Merlin was trying to say to her that time was that the best thing to do would be to give up peacefully - yeah, she might fade out of existence forever and all that, but hey, it'd make his life easier. Feh. *inserts 'talk to the hand' smiley here*
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Post by himiko on Jun 14, 2007 21:18:43 GMT
Yes, I agree, any future talks might be made more successful by the removal of said part.
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Post by tosca on Jun 14, 2007 21:30:02 GMT
That would leave little else besides, but yes, I'm sure they would.
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Post by himiko on Jun 14, 2007 23:05:59 GMT
Well, just pointing out that the violence is driving more people away from the Old Ways than bringing them back to her, that sort of thing/
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Post by tosca on Jun 14, 2007 23:24:38 GMT
LOL, yes, in an ideal world, that would surely have been very helpful.
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Post by himiko on Jun 15, 2007 0:41:57 GMT
Yes, most certainly.
*pokes Merlin irritably* SEE?! That's how you should have gone about it!
*whacks Merlin about the head*
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Post by tosca on Jun 15, 2007 3:44:59 GMT
Tsks. I see we're gonna have to lay down the entire conversation for you, Merlin you dork. kk.
You: Mab. People will only listen to you if you're nicer to them. Mab: *lightbulb* kthxbai
Can you manage that?
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Post by himiko on Jun 15, 2007 11:50:07 GMT
Merlin: *scratches head* Himiko: *thwacks Merlin in face* Merlin: Owww.... yes....
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