Mists of Avalon *spoilers*

[Accolon]

I read Mists of Avalon shortly after seeing Merlin, and I definitely saw alot of parallels one could discuss (death of the old ways, Merlin betraying "the Goddess," etc)

One thing in particular, I started to read Mists... as having another, implicit character, the Goddess, who was trying to get the various mortal characters to do things, and sometimes succeeding, sometimes failing. Sometimes Morgain would go into a trance and seem to speak for the Goddess directly. Many, maybe all of the spells were of the form of asking or empowering the Goddess to Do Something, and the Goddess choosing what would happen - and what she chose depended on what SHE wanted, not necessarily what the sorceress wanted.

So anyway, I saw quite a bit of correspondence between this implicit character of Mists of Avalon and the explicit character of Mab in Merlin.

Thoughts? Other thoughts on Mists of Avalon and Merlin?

[himiko]

Ah! I read Mists of Avalon a while ago. I really should read it again (and get round to finishing watching the miniseries/movie version).

I'm afraid I can't really comment so much on the Goddess/Mab until I've read it again and refamiliarised myself with it, but I remember thinking that Morgaine in the book bore far more resemblance to the character of Mab than she did to "Merlin"'s version of Morgan le Fey, at least in parts of the book, and particularly later on in the novel. Yes, she was human, and a follower of the goddess rather than the goddess herself, so there were differences in that sense, as well as her sense of acceptance at the end of the book. Perhaps it was because, as the novel progressed, Morgaine became less of the pawn, and more of someone actively fighting to keep the Old Ways alive, whereas Morgan in Merlin was very much a "pawn" of Mab and Frik, and her motives had very little to do with the well being of the Old Ways, and far more with revenge and ambition.

As to other general thoughts on the book: was I the only person who got really, really irritated by Gwenhwyfar?

[Accolon]

Well in the case of Morgain and my argument, the way I started to see it was there was this other character, "the Goddess," who was TRYING to get Morgain to act/submit to the Goddess' will. But Morgain in the middle of the book rebelled and tried to be more or less a normal person. Eventually though Morgain started to do what the Goddess wanted her to do. Even more - Morgain would submit herself to the Goddess entirely when doing magic (e.g. the grail scene, Morgain doesn't know what spell is about to happen, she just channels the Goddess and let's her come into the world.)

I didn't like Gwenhwyfar because she was the enemy :/

[sleepyqueenie]

Does anyone feel like picking up this topic? I love the Mists of Avalon and am surprised it hasn't been discussed more on the forum.
What are your likes/dislikes on this Arthurian tale?
The novel made a big impression on me those many years ago when I first read it.
What I like best about the Mists in both the novel and the miniseries is the character of Viviane.

[himiko]

I'm still intending to get around to a reread at some point XD I like that it tells the Arthurian legend from the point of view of many women, and puts a lot of emphasis on the female characters and how they affect the story- a lot of Arthurian tales don't tend to do this.

Have you read any of the other "of Avalon" books? I own Ancestors of Avalon, Lady of Avalon and the Forest of Avalon (originally named The Forest House)- they're not bad, but nowhere near as good as Mists of Avalon, IMO. Perhaps that's just because I'm familiar with the Arthurian legend, so that's what I'm more interested in reading about.

[sleepyqueenie]

So am I. Rereading the Mists is a bit tricky since 13-year-old me thought it was the best book ever and she wanted this to be the last book she read before dying. Dramatic much? It was very sincere and sweet a feeling though. Every time I reread a part of this novel I am on my guard in case something should suddenly decide to kill me.

I also read Lady of Avalon around that time. I enjoyed it, it wasn't as good as the Mists, in fact I remember very little of it. I did have a spectacular time reading it. The school got evacuated for a day in fear of a gas leak. We stood outside for many hours, I was so happy I had brought my book.

The Forest of Avalon (originally named The Forest House) I bought a while ago. I am now reading that, it inspired me to boost this threat.

[maellowyn]

Gnaa never made it past the front page, so this book actually became the first and only book I ever threw away!

Can't read this woman-power-menstruation-ritual-unhistorical-bullshit Ms. Bradley is writing -this is way to much exaggerated for me...

[sleepyqueenie]

" this book actually became the first and only book I ever threw away!"
Then the literary world has been kind to you so far.
There are some books I would burn from my mind if I could. Ah well best ignore those every day I can. I'll be fine.

I do see how someone can dislike the Mists for those reasons. Personally "woman-power-menstruation-ritual-" add "magic, moon and madness" will always fascinate me, "cats" are nice too I am getting side tracked.

"unhistorical-bullshit"
It is a good thing Mab is real

[himiko]

TBH, historical realism doesn't really bother me when I'm reading Arthurian literature, because so much of it is made up and cobbled together from other bits and pieces in the first place. There are occasions when it gets a little too much (BBC Merlin, there is no amount of suspension of disbelief that will allow me to believe that THAT castle is supposed to exist in Dark Age Britain. Just no), but by and large, it includes rather a lot of magic, "our" Merlin included. Even authors (like Bernard Cornwell, for example) who are clearly aiming for historical accuracy for the most part, admit that they set it aside at times in favour of a good story.

I quite like the way Mists of Avalon as a whole is set up as Arthurian legend from the female perspective, and adds a little more depth to characters who are sometimes portrayed mostly as pretty one dimensional "evil sorceress", "adulteress", etc. But each to their own, I get that it's not everyone's cup of tea.

[maellowyn]

Ha Ha loved that comment on BBCs Merlins castle - yay it just sucks.

No I am not insisting on making every bit or detail absolutely historically correct or so - I just want it to be believable - and given my knowledge this makes it sometimes a little bit hard -
yeah but if I wanna read or see something on women-power in ancient times I watch Xena, that's enough for me ;-)

PS: Does anybody here doubt, that Mab doesn't exist?!?! (Don't let her hear the wrong answer ;-) why do I have the sudden urge to chant: "I do believe in fairies! I do! I do!")