What Does Merlin truly believe in anyway?

[Arwen17]

The problem is: we can’t think outside of space and time. Though I can imagine it would be chaotic without them, but heaven would be a peaceful place sort of ‘above’ the chaos of it all.
yeah very likely something like that. and since we've never been outside of time, maybe it isn't chaotic? no way to know yet. Where's that time-breaking machine? If you could travel at the speed of light, time no longer exists. Have a look at quantum physics. At that level, the laws of physics behave like nothing we've ever seen before and scientists still don't understand what is going on. There's so much we don't know.

Yet she lets Merlin live even after he has proclaimed himself her enemy.
I know, a paradox isn't she? I think she let Merlin live though because she kept hoping he'd come back and he was her son. Not some random foreigner. But I think I recall Frik in the book saying he was quite surprised she hadn't gotten rid of Merlin because she had never been so merciful with anyone else who betrayed her. So I guess she really did love him for some unknowable reason.
I'm going back to my theory that he was created to be more than just her son, he was meant to be her consort as well. But maybe not. A mother's love for her child tends to be one of the strongest kinds of love, so strong its instinctual.

And would these Celts also have opposed Roman rule if Mab hadn’t ‘given the order’?
oh I'm sure they would. Unless a person is already living under an oppressive regime, most people do not welcome outsiders.
It was just shocking how they chose to deal with their prisoners of war. But that's how a lot of pagan gods were worshipped back in the day. Human sacrifice. Especially for gods of war etc. War gods want more than flowers as offerings.

Technically Mab didn't "give the order" as far as we know, but they were sacrificing them for her pleasure.

Well, if it was ‘customary’ to use such cruel methods in those days, why not do it in honour of Mab?
exactly what they were doing.

PS the wicker man scene got into my dream last night:
I dreamt that my little cousins, who absolutely adore me –no kidding-, wanted to sacrifice newborn chicks to my cat in worship of me. They held the small things in their hands as if it were communion wafers. I managed to stop them in time and tried to save the chicks. Though for some reason it abhorred me to touch those small fluffy creatures. And then the chicks died anyway.

that sounds really scary. I'm glad to say I've never dreamed about wickermen. But I did have a dream last night of zombies trying to eat me and my friends. No idea where that came from.

[sleepyqueenie]

Where's that time-breaking machine? yes, go fetch it at once There is so much we don't know. Agreed. And it is quite impossible to know what risks should be taken in the name of science.

I know, a paradox isn't she? I think she let Merlin live though because she kept hoping he'd come back and he was her son. yes, despite 'totally giving up on him' she still wished for him to return to her. Tragic really. So I guess she really did love him for some unknowable reason. aaaw she did.
He is her son. That is reason enough.
He doesn't deserve it.
I'm going back to my theory that he was created to be more than just her son, he was meant to be her consort as well. hmm, I don't see that. The thought of them together makes my skin crawl. Personally I don't think Mab planned any further for Merlin than being her champion and reviving the Old Ways. The possibility of a love interest would come after her original goal has been achieved. Their mother-son relationship is complicating enough as it is.

War gods want more than flowers as offerings. lol Mab getting flowers. That would ruin her mood.

that sounds really scary. It didn't feel very scary. Just absurd. I'm glad to say I've never dreamed about wickermen hurray for you! But I did have a dream last night of zombies trying to eat me and my friends. No idea where that came from. creepy. No possibility of one of your friends being a zombie in disguise?

[Arwen17]

The thought of them together makes my skin crawl. Personally I don't think Mab planned any further for Merlin than being her champion and reviving the Old Ways. The possibility of a love interest would come after her original goal has been achieved. Their mother-son relationship is complicating enough as it is.
why, why, why? they're so good together. its not like she actually gave birth to him and she didn't even raise him. So she's not going to feel like a mother or anything else.
Think of it like vampires. Technically when a vampire creates a new vampire, that new vampire is their "child", but often times they're lovers anyway.
Its not like a human parent/child relationship.

If anything's sick, its the mordred/mab stuff because she was like his aunt, always there in his childhood.

The reason I feel like he was more than a son is because the goddess is said to give birth to her son on yule(christmas), he becomes her lover on beltaine(may day), and he dies on samhaim(halloween). And then the cycle is repeated again each year.
And also, she hesitates in the movie, "I love you.....as a son."
Why did it take her so long to decide to say "as a son"?

She created Merlin to save the Old Ways, but I also think she created him because she was lonely. He was more than just a child, he was meant to be her partner one day.

If you couldn't tell:
die hard mab/merlin fan
although I do like vortigern/mab a lot too.

[sleepyqueenie]

Why? Because I don’t like Merlin. I can’t imagine him living up to anything Mab needs. –though in fics everything is possible– I can understand young Merlin crushing on Mab. Not adult Merlin.

I believe Mab has motherly feelings towards him. So to me it is incest. But Mab being Mab wouldn't see that as an obstruction.

I love it when you talk vampire ;D It is different. Mab created Merlin. He wouldn't exist if it wasn't for her. While vampires were once human. Their body and spirit already existed. There is no link between the vampires and their lovers/soon-to-be-vamps before before the change.

Agreed about Mab/Mordred. That is sick. And can be very entertaining.

she hesitates in the movie, "I love you.....as a son."
Why did it take her so long to decide to say "as a son"? Because she is afraid to admit their natural bond. They call each other by name the entire film to create a distance. By saying that she loves him as a son she admits that she can love him beyond the point of him being useful to her.

die hard mab/merlin fan I figured
although I do like vortigern/mab a lot too. Me too. Tent scene...

[Arwen17]

But Mab being Mab wouldn't see that as an obstruction.
hehehe

I love it when you talk vampire ;D It is different. Mab created Merlin. He wouldn't exist if it wasn't for her. While vampires were once human. Their body and spirit already existed. There is no link between the vampires and their lovers/soon-to-be-vamps before before the change.
I'm just making the point its not like she was in labor with him. She created him. She didn't give birth to him? But yes, birth/creation how you differentiate the two depends on the story.

But some vampire stories talk of it as being "reborn". So technically they are reborn as a new being that is connected in a parent/child kind of way. Their human blood dies and the vampire blood is in their veins. So its incest..(with yourself?) because the two vampires have the same blood in their veins.

I fear magical/vampire blood is not very scientific. >_< makes it hard to prove exactly what incest would be lol.


Because she is afraid to admit their natural bond. They call each other by name the entire film to create a distance. By saying that she loves him as a son she admits that she can love him beyond the point of him being useful to her.
awww...that is so true.
Aha! So Mab is capable of human emotion! the positive, tender kind of emotion.

I wonder if Mab would have ever admitted she loved him as a son if things had gone as planned. Would she admit something like that without being desperate? I think she has a tendency to bury her emotions unless something dramatic forcefully drags them to the surface.

[himiko]

I believe there's a possibility that Mab would have admitted her love for Merlin, but I don't think she'd plan to. Think about it, in the film she actually says she loves Merlin twice- once to Nimue, in the midst of an argument, once to Merlin, in desperation. The first time she seems to snap out that she loves him without thinking, the second time she hesitates. Similarly, when she tells Frik that she wanted Merlin to come back to her so she fooled herself, its when she's angry, and when Frik botes how unusual that is, she slaps him. I don't think she likes admitting her emotions, particularly in regard to Merlin- he is her enemy, after all. I certainly think she's capable of love, I just don't think she's neccessarily capable of seeing how loving a human and hurting them aren't particularly compatible.

As for Merlin being created to be Mab's lover.... I don't know. I think it works either way. She creates Merlin, she refers to him as her son to Ambrosia, as well as to Merlin at the end. I think she loves him as a son, but, as someone said, Mab being Mab, that doesn't preclude other relationships. I'm a sucker for Mab/Merlin stuff in general, I love the platonic fics exploring the mother/son dynamic, I love the lust-filled angsty sex stuff Saying that, my favourite pairings from Merlin are Mab/Merlin, Mab/Mordred (mostly one sided obsession) and Mab/Idath- if we're allowed to include non-canon characters, I totally ship Mab/Loke (mentioned in both Jim on MRAP and Cid on these boards as the Lord of Fire), and they're supposed to be brother and sister Apparently, I like my incest in fics... hmmm... Being fair, incest is an interesting subject with the elemental kings- Mab doesn't give birth to Merlin, but on the other hand, her magic does run in his blood, like passing down her DNA, in a sense. Its fuzzy ground. The idea of Mab/Merlin used to make me feel icky, but various fics have brought me round to the pairing, and I enjoy it.

My gut feeling re. Merlin and Mab is that she does love him as a son. She creates him to be king, to follow her, but not neccessarily as a lover. But if she thought being his lover would tie him to the Old Ways more, or bring him back to the Old Ways, then yes, I think she would have been his lover/consort/ whatever. She wanted him to be her follower in whatever way possible, but she loved him like a son.

[sleepyqueenie]

I fear magical/vampire blood is not very scientific. >_< makes it hard to prove exactly what incest would be lol. yeah, but it's fun to discuss ;D

Aha! So Mab is capable of human emotion! the positive, tender kind of emotion. we fangirls always knew that, now it is proven.

Would she admit something like that without being desperate? no. At least not in his first 40 years of loyal service.

... I don't think she likes admitting her emotions, particularly in regard to Merlin- he is her enemy, after all. That makes it all the more bittersweet.
Merlin, Nimue, someone listen to Mab when she confesses her feelings!
I just don't think she's neccessarily capable of seeing how loving a human and hurting them aren't particularly compatible. lol true. I guess that is a strange human thing to her.

The idea of Mab/Merlin used to make me feel icky, but various fics have brought me round to the pairing, and I enjoy it. Maybe that will happen to me as well. tadatadaDA *hums the imperial march*

But if she thought being his lover would tie him to the Old Ways more, or bring him back to the Old Ways, then yes, I think she would have been his lover/consort/ whatever. Too bad he already found his true love. Otherwise he just might have come round if she had made that offer.